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OK. OK. Let me start again. Gotta put that stuff on the top and I'm sorry, today is November 15th, 2003. This is Barbara Lau. I'm uh at the Haitai Heritage Center as part of the Durham Civil Rights Heritage Project with Annie Smith. Um Annie, I'm sorry

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to ask you to repeat this. But you said you were born in Durham and you grew up in Durham and you lived within a five mile radius of where you grew up. You were telling me a little bit about going to school and I went to

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school, we walked to Union school. I had the first through the seventh grade at Union school. Right about the time I finished uh I finished in May of 19 and 38. And my daddy died in March of 19 and 38. My mommy had to go to

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work and I had a brother that was 10, a sister that was six, a niece that was five and a baby brother that was nine months. And I stayed there and kept those Children for five years until my baby brother was old enough to go to

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school. Mama said I could go to school. He was five years old, but I had to take him with me. I carried him with me to school and I had the eighth grade at Pearson Town where, where Doctor Jw Davidson was the principal. The next year

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he was six years old and he could go to the classroom and be taught. And I went to Hillside and had the ninth grade. I finished, I didn't come out of Hillside with almost eight average, but I, my clothes were so scarce. The Children had laughed

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at me so much about one pair of shoes, one coat and no hat and things like that. Two or three dresses that I told mom I'm not going back and I did not go back at 21 years old. I went to Woolworths and got a job

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as a maid. I worked there for 40 years every day. I was supposed to went to work. God blessed me with a way to get that. It was hard sometimes. But eventually before that I got there on time, 99% of the time I never had to

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call in sick. And I thank God for that. That's amazing. I can't say that for myself, never having to call and say well, so when you were 21 was that your first job? That was my first paid job. So I did that at Woolworths on main

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street. 222, the one that I felt bad about it because it had been there 90 years when they closed it and I felt like they should have worked it out and stayed there for 10 years for the 100 made the 100 years. Well, what was your

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job? So, you were, I was, I was the maid, I was the maid, but I had an hour for lunch every day and I would take that hour and spend it where other people were working. And I watched them and on days when they couldn't come

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to work, they would come and ask me to work in that person's place. And I was able to do it because I had watched them because I used to watch them on my lunch hours. So, uh one day, the girl that worked the steam table didn't

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come to work and they asked me, can you work the steam table? I said, I'll try and I went over there and I could fix them place just as fast as those girls call them in. And they took that job away from that girl and gave

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it to me and gave her another job. And I worked that steam table. I reckon 20 years, I love to work that steam table and they love to hear me work. I could fix them places as fast as they call me. And if they didn't pick

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them up quick, I carried them to customs because I didn't have to allow that food. To be sitting around. I trained a mini girl and showed him how I've seen girls come back. They didn't know how to wait on a customer. Give them a plate and

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a glass of water and going off a la and they have to call and say you didn't give me no silver. I worked with those girls to show them how to wait on people. So I stayed on that steam table so long. And finally, we got

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into a demonstration when the demonstration came by, I was still there working and working and working. And after we got all through all the commotion of city and open the lunch kind of back up. I work still, I still work because the bakery was open and

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I made doughnuts all that time. I made doughnuts. And so um do you remember that day, the first day that the some of the people came in and sat, I remember the first day, the first day they came in there and sat down so fast. They

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feel like every time a person got up, somebody sit in that seat and they did not get up. We had to close the store and every time they came, every time we opened up, they would come back and they would sit and we'd have to close

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the store. They closed the whole store, not just the lunch counter, they closed the whole store, they closed in that closed the whole store because they would, somebody would, they would do boom threats and they had to vacate, we'd had to vacate the building. It was

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just a lot of stuff was going on. How did that make you feel when you watch those kids come in? Made you feel terrible. But you had to, I had a, I had a very good manager. He told me to, don't take no sides with nobody.

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Don't, don't make, give nobody no comments because you don't know what to tell them anyway. Just leave it. Just, just, just stay silent. That's what I do. Did you think they should have, you know, I mean, you knew the manager? He wasn't, was he gonna, do

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you think he would have integrated the store any other way? Well, I feel like if they had, uh, went on and, um, just, just, just done it, we would have saved money and we wouldn't have lost money because they were ready to eat and they were

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ready to pay that. But the managers, they couldn't do it. It had to come from the office and after they stayed close so long the office open up and, and they opened up and we see it serve and we didn't have no problem. We just served

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them. But I have waited on a lot of people that come in there. We have some black people that if you don't know who they are, you don't know what race they are because they look like they're white. And I have seen people come in there

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that I knew was in the black dress coming in and said I have nobody know who it was. They couldn't tell them to leave because they couldn't tell them they were black because they didn't know because they were passing and they would, and they would be.

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And so after they just, it left a little bit, it just went on to eat and it was all over with, how long did it go on for them to sit in and sit in and sit in? How many days did they close the store? Do

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you remember? I, we ended up being closed about three or four months, I think before we really opened up the best I can remember. It's probably in some of that. Right. That, uh, that, but because I haven't played it in a long, but I haven't read

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it in a long, long time. And, um, well, did you get involved in any of the other kinds of, um, boycotts or protesting? No, no, no, no, no, no. Last time back at Woolworths that was in the, what was the fifties, sixties in the sixties? That

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was in the sixties. And I stayed right there in 1985 when I retired. But you thought your manager was kind of sympathetic. He was, he was not, he wanted to serve, he, he wanted to. But he could, he have, he didn't have a job. What about

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some of the other people that he worked with? Did they make comments of people, some of them was laid off because they didn't have the work for him to do. But uh I had made donuts before I knew how to do that and we were gonna

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be selling doughnuts. So if they gave me that job would make the DS. But there were people waiting for me. They said if that store closes, we want. So I had jobs out there waiting for me if they were waiting for me because they wanted me.

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But I wouldn't go because they told me I would have a job there. And so I stayed there. And then the last eight years I work, I trained the many girls, I trained the many girls and but the last eight years I worked there, if they

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had to put anybody over with me, I told myself I will walk out of here. I will go to Cress's and I will take all of my customers with me. And they gave me the job for managing the lunch counter. And I managed that lunch counter

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for eight years. When was that? That was in 19 and 85 was my 40 here. So that was when you started managing the lunch counter. So I left that in and uh had there been AAA black person who had managed lunch? I was the first person

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to ever manage that Woolworth's lunch counter. The only one ever manage to do. Do you think that the people who did the protesting, do you think they made that possible in a way? You know, I mean, before that they probably wouldn't have thought about making black

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people managers. I don't know. I really don't know. I really don't know. But I had a number one record. I had a man to come in a really good customer. They loved it at that. We ran the register and we counted the change back to the

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customer. And that man loved to hear me count money back to him. He said he never heard nobody count money like I do. He brought a, a recorder and put it up under the counter because he wanted to record it without me hearing knowing about it.

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But if he'd said it on the counter, I would have done it for him. Did you do it in a special way? Tell me how I would say like your bill was $2.96. I would say 96 97 9899345, 1015, 20. Thank you and have a good

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day. That's great. Kind of like an auctioneer, right? You got a little bit pattern and I could say it so fast and so smooth, just like that. He and they, and they like it. They just was amazed at how I said it. Well, did that lunch

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counter. Change once it was integrated. How was it different? Well, what happened was that lunch counter when I went there, they extended it, made it longer, then they made it shorter. The kitchen was upstairs, they moved the kitchen downstairs, they moved the snack bar from the

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middle of the floor over to the side and, um, and put in some boots back there and maybe counter shorter again. And then after they've done all of that remodeling, they didn't stay open, but two or three more years and I just felt like they shouldn't

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have left it like it was if the w more stay open no longer than that. I, I really, I stayed over five years after all that model. But I mean, with the kind of, I mean, did you notice that like people and the way they acted

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and, you know, kind of the conversations they had was that different bef when it was all white and then when it was integrated? No, pretty much the same. Did the food change? Did you serve any different food? All the same food? And what, and what kind

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of food generally did you serve? We had, we had a full course meal. We had like turkey dinner every day. That was, I, no one dinner every day was turkey dinner. And we had country style steak. We had meat loaf. We had chicken pot pies, we

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had a vegetable plate and, uh, we had five, we had five plates every day and we had homemade pies and homemade cakes. We had good, we really had good food. It was really good food. And, uh, and the service was the, the service was good. The

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food was good and they eventually, they got where they would let us take tips and I made this, I made good tips. When was that? I don't even remember that before the sit ins or after. Uh, I think it started before the sit ends. Best. I

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can remember. What kind of impact do you think the civil rights movement made on Durham? Well, it let people know that we all human did. None of us make ourselves when I knew what color I was. I was already this color and I couldn't change it

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when you knew what color you were, you were and you can't change it. And so I don't have, I don't have a problem with white people myself. In fact, I love them because my daddy died and mama had to go to work. She worked with the

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white people. I was at home with my baby brother and the other Children going to school. And if I was making, doing something that I didn't know how to do, I'd take it and go down to Miss Parrish's house or Miss Penny's house and tell them

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that I don't know what to do. Tell me how to do this and they would tell me and I could go back home and do it. And if I was making me a dress and didn't know how to get it together. At 12 years old, they

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would show me what to do and tell me what to. So what to put in when to put the sleeves in and this, that and that, and then when I got it finished, I would go back down there and either wear it so she could see

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it or care and let her see it. So white people is just, is just like my family. And I've had people to tell me I had a woman one time to tell me, she said, and I'm gonna die and I know it because the doctors already

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told me and I have already lived longer than the doctor said I would live. And she said, when I die, you come on over to my house and spend time with my family. And when you come to the funeral, sit with the family, do not sit

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in the back of the church. And I said, ok, and one day at work, I got a call and they told me that she had passed. I said, when I got off, I went right on over there and I took her husband out to himself. And

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I told him I said, do not let nobody have her car until you have the chance to check it out. Good. Because she told me she had some important stuff. In her trunk and that's what I done. I went to the film, I sit beside him

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and I've done others the same way. When I go to that field I sit in the family. They don't want me to sit in the back of the church. They want me to sit with the, um, and I do that and I have no problem with

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white people. None whatsoever. I don't have no problem with Jews. And people claim to hate Jews. Why people claim to hate white people. Why, why do you hate him? And they take about what they done to my four parents. Way back on. Well, I won back

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there. I went back there. They treated us good when Papa died in 1938. Everybody that know us, treated us good. They brought, they come and they brought what they thought we needed. Why did I hate them? We hadn't been for, then we could have starved or

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we could have died. We could have not had enough food or the house could have called on Find Bruno while I was up, a lot of things could have happened. Well, do you ever wonder if maybe, you know, you would have had a better education or

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you might have been able to have a different kind of life if there had been integration earlier or if people, you know, if there wasn't such a, you know, the way that some people, some people looked at other people as, not as good as them. Do

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you think that would have made a difference for you? I really don't know. I really don't know. The, the thing that we really should have had was another place to go to school. When we finished the seventh grade, there was nowhere for us to go to

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school. Now, Lowe's Grove had a high school, but we weren't allowed to go because we were black. We would have to go to town and stay with a relative if we had one up there in the hillside in order to go to hillside. Because we was

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like, you were really, but at that time, that part of the county was pretty rural, wasn't it? Yeah. It's really out in the country. But I was a person that liked to read and I continued to read and I've met a lot of people to not,

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to, to not be able to accept the fact that I am not educated because I depend on God and God makes me do things and shows me things that I don't know how to do and I can do things that are so smooth. They really believe

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I've been asked many times. Are you a nurse? And I've been asked many times. Were you ever a school teacher? You know, it sounds like you continued to educate. If you kept reading there. There's a, there's a, there's a, that's education and reading that you won't

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get from nothing else and you can get on and I, and I encourage Children right now, read, read, read the more you read the better you will be able to do your other work. Because if you read something and don't understand it, you can't work the

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problem, you can't work up, you're absolutely right. Where did you get your books when you were younger? Did people go every time white people clean up the house? We got it. You didn't go to the library? We didn't know where the library was. That's far away.

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Wasn't it any books or any newspapers, old magazines, old clothes, anything. They always come to our house. And if we didn't have on their street, mama said the Bible. Well, so it sounds like what you were saying is that people kind of divided in a way

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based on how much money they had sometimes as much as they divided based on what race they were. You know, at the time my dad and I, I thought those white people that my mama went to work for were rich. I thought they were rich. But

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you know what? They were poor. They had land, they had a house, they didn't have no electricity and we didn't have no electricity. They had a phone, but we didn't have a phone. And mama after she started working with him, bought a linoleum rug and put

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it on our kitchen floor. And those people that she was working for, did not have a linoleum mug on that floor. They bought one and put on that floor after mama bought one and put on her floor, she was ahead of them. And that let me

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know that they weren't rich. But I tell you what they were rich in. They believed and planned because they had owned slaves. They believe in planting big gardens. They'd have a corn field, they'd have sweet pla patch. They'd have big white potatoes, Oakland squash and everything

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you could think. In fact, the way they planted garden, they had garden near round, they planted some early, they had something else to come on in the middle of the summer and then they had that fall garden like them collards and terms and things. So they

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had garden near around. So they had fresh vegetables, fresh air and every time my mama went there to work or wash or iron or Berkeley or whatever she went to do, she come home with something. They killed hogs. It was a ham bone and some collards

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or some sweet potatoes. What if I've known mama to come home with so much stuff that she'd get about halfway home and stop and set it down beside of a tree and then she would come on home with the rest up. She would get home and

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tell us to go back up there to the big element and get your stuff sitting beside it and bring it home. I know they do that many times. So they, they planned a big garden and their garden was our grocery store because that's what we eat

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out of was that garden? We didn't have a big garden. We had a row of peas. It wasn't a little of peas for a family. It's not nothing to plant. They planted peas, they plant four or five of those. You had three brothers and sisters. I

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had three brothers and I had four, I had three brothers and three sisters. So there were seven of us and I'm right in the middle. And so what happened to some of the other brothers and sisters if they stayed in Durham as well? Or at one

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time, all seven of all six of us was on a Durham kind of phone line and the other one was on the Raleigh Line. We stayed that close together. Are they still here? Most of some of my old, my second sister died first and then my

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oldest brother died next and then my oldest sister died next and then my baby sister died next. Well, now, so when you were young, when you were, did some of your brothers and sisters have the same ideas you had about civil rights or did some of

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them have different? We talk about, we talk about, we don't, we never heard the word civil rights, we never heard a word. So none of them got. What kind of work. Did they do? Did they get involved at all in the team where we could find

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where we could find work to do? Because none of us was educated except beyond the seventh grade because there was no way my brother, my brother, that's 10, that's two years younger than I am. He, uh, I think after he got to be a grown under

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Taylor when arm and come back and got to be a Taylor, I think he got his GED and my youngest sister graduated from Hillside and my baby brother graduated from hillside, but it was over two years to graduate from. But that wasn't a conversation in your

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family to talk about the civil rights or to talk about what was going on to criticize it. So when people start picketing or they had the boycott of downtown, it was it because your family lived far away. It didn't involve us up and we didn't come

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into town. Mama came to town. I was out of this and bought what she had wanted to buy with and we were home. But by the time you were 21 when all that stuff was going on, your, some of your brothers and sisters must have been

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working and doing other things right where they, but they weren't downtown. They were still kind of farther out downtown because my, my two older sisters didn't, neither one of them work for years after they got married, they didn't do nothing. And my oldest brother, when he

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got married, he worked at the, uh, flour mill and he eventually left there and went and worked for the gas company. And then my brother that's younger, two years younger than I am. He went on, all three of my brothers went on and all three of

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them came back. And that was a blessing to mama in a way because they got mama got money from the army, which was a big hypnos. Did you get married? Yeah, I got married. I met my husband at Woolworths and he and I was married 46

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years, four months, 10 days, 2.5 hours and he died. So I've been a widow now for nine years. But I'll tell you one thing, God has blessed me beyond a reasonable doubt. I am happy as I can be. I don't know if I have ever been

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anywhere or done anything over a period of nine years that I found as much joy, peace, happiness, comfort. As I've heard these Daniels, I have one son. He's an angel. God blessed me to have one child and he blessed me to have a good child. He's

00:24:19.849 - 00:24:33.329

never told me I'm not gonna eat this. I'm not gonna wear this. Why don't you do this? And you don't know how to do this. He never said those things to me. He says you're the only mama I got and I love you. And if I,

00:24:33.339 - 00:24:44.660

we could be talking on, if he lives in Sterling Virginia, we could be talking on the phone and just hang up when we still talking. And then in a minute, my phone will ring and he is 11 other officer is going ring in a minute. You

00:24:44.670 - 00:25:01.140

know who I forgot to say, I love you. That's really nice. Did your work? He worked, he got a job working part time. The bus boy didn't come that day and the manager went out on the street and just saw him and said, come here. Will

00:25:01.150 - 00:25:15.469

you book work for two hours? Bush, the dishes for us. And he did. And that's how I met him and my sister, she worked up there one time and she got, she met her husband at, at war. Uh, and they thought it was funny because they

00:25:15.479 - 00:25:33.709

met their wives at the dime store. They got, they got a dime store. Why it cost the better at the dime store? I'm sure they didn't treat him like a, oh, no, no, no. Life is indeed. It has been good. How do you think Durhams changed

00:25:33.719 - 00:25:52.439

since you were a little girl? It's changed a lot because I know houses that we thought were really nice houses. They had heaters in them, they had fireplaces in them and you know, and we thought they were nice houses. But when they started building really nice

00:25:52.449 - 00:26:11.430

houses, putting two bathrooms in the house or three bedroom and he system them folks got out of them houses and went to them new houses and a lot of them old houses got torn down for, for more improvement, like streets and things. And that expressway come

00:26:11.459 - 00:26:30.689

through there. That's when they cleaned up there. They cleaned up. Now they cut out some alleys and things but people living here some really not so great places, not such good, but they may. And now you, they got nice house in that there's nice houses. So

00:26:30.699 - 00:26:43.390

you think Durham has gotten better than Durham is much better. Durham is much better. You think it's better for white people and black people? Oh, that's great. I know you said you want to get.