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Jim Wise: It’s Jim Wise for the Durham Public Library and we’re talking with Arthur John Howard Clement the Third at his home at, on Brookstone Drive. And um, Mr. Clement has been a city councilman since 1983. It’s August 17, 2012 and he is the longest serving city councilman in Durham history and otherwise a very distinguished gentleman. So thank you for taking the time with me today. Howard Clement: Thank you for asking me to. It’s a privilege. Jim Wise: Arthur John Howard Clement III – who are you named for? Is that your dad and grandfather? Howard Clement: Dad and grandfather.

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Jim Wise: What brought you to Durham in the first place? You grew up in South Carolina. Howard Clement: I grew up in Charleston, South Carolina. Jim Wise: Went to Howard. Howard Clement: I went to Howard University, spent my undergrad and legal training at Howard University. Um, my family’s had a long association with North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Company, one of the largest and oldest African American insurance companies in the United States. My grandfather started working at North Carolina Mutual , ah, in 1911, and ah, he stayed with the company until he passed in 1955. My father came with the company after he graduated from college, in 1930. He retired in 1970. He passed away in 1970…1986. Um, my uncle was with the company from 1934 until he retired in the late 90s. When I came out…my first job, my first job with a paycheck when I was in high school and I was a janitor for North Carolina Mutual at the Charleston, South Carolina branch office. And of course all those years at North Carolina Mutual, I came out of law school and was admitted to the Bar, North Carolina Mutual hired me in 1960 to, to work in the home office here in Durham. I was brought on as a legal assistant, eventually became Chief Claims Admini…Chief Claims Officer and I retired in 1997.

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Howard Clement: Um, it’s the only place I’ve ever worked. I did have um, a law practice then in Charleston, but that was part-time. I did most of my professional work with North Carolina Mutual, until I retired in 1997. Um, the company was in need…the company in 1960 was expanding to Chicago, Illinois, Cleveland, Ohio and Los Angeles, California and wanted to upgrade its legal staff and I was brought on in that connection. Jim Wise: So you were here for the move from Parrish Street up to Chapel Hill Street. Howard Clement: Yes, yes. Yes, in fact I was part of the move. I remember vividly I was chairman of the, what we called the visitor’s committee, and I was responsible for seeing to all the guests and invited personnel had lodging and it was my job at that time. This was in 1963, I think is when we started moving from Parrish Street to…(file gets cut off) File continues but time resets as it is a different files.

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Track 2 Howard Clement: to Chapel Hill Street. I had an opportunity to meet a whole lot of, many of the distinguished visitors and guest as a part of the move, because that was a big event for North Carolina Mutual. In fact it was a big event for Durham. Jim Wise: Oh yeah. Howard Clement: Where we had a grand opening and um.

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Jim Wise: Didn’t Hubert Humphrey (cross talk) Howard Clement: Hubert Humphrey, he was the guest speaker, and um, it was a big occasion and um, I was a part of that process. A very small part, but it’s something I will always cherish. Of course as the company grew and became more involved I, I got caught up in, caught up in the movement so to speak. It was during the, during the height of the Civil Rights Movement, 1963, August of 1963 when Martin Luther King and his colleagues had this March on Washington. Um, I was the only North Carolina Mutual employee to be a part of that process. And um, no reflection on the company, but um, the company…when I raised questions about our involvement in the Civil Rights Movement I was told by Mr. Spaulding and Mr. Goodhope, top officials at the Mutual, that the Mutual’s an insurance company not…we weren’t caught up in the civil rights process. So I was, so anyhow I went to my own devices and became more and more involved in the movement. Martin Luther King invited me to come to Selma in ’65 I think it was, um, the officers of the company sent me to Los Angeles, to ah, to ah, to get, to keep me out of harm’s way, so they said. And um, that was alright. I spent three months in Los Angeles. The company had, had problems as I said we, we had expanded our operations to Los Angeles. We, we had some problems and I went to the insurance department, so they sent me to Los Angles and I traveled between Los Angeles and Sacramento, the capital to deal with the company’s problems. We eventually resolved those problems and after three months I came on back to Durham. So that, that’s, that was a big experience for me. In the meantime, I met a young lady in Durham. She was the secretary to Mr. Spaulding, the President, Delores, we married and as a result of the marriage we became parents of three daughters. And um, Delores passed away, it will be ten years, um July the 22^(nd). Um, and so in 2007 I remarried. My current wife Ann and um, she’s been a good woman, a good wife. And um, that’s the story of my family. I inherited two daughters and two sons as a result of my marriage to Ann. And combined with the three daughters, the product of my first marriage, we have seven children and eighteen grandchildren. Jim Wise: That’s quite a family. Howard Clement: Oh yeah.

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Jim Wise: You must enjoy the grandchildren. Howard Clement: Oh yeah. Track 3 (file continues but time is reset) Howard Clement: Oh yes. So it’s been a good life and um in August…in May of ’83 I was invited to join the City Council.

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Jim: Now had you had any interest? I know you were involved in the Movement, but had you had any interest previous to that to seek elected office. Howard Clement: Yes. Um, um, Governor Hunt appointed me to the General Assembly in, um, I can’t…’74. In 1974 and I served two years as an appointee representing Durham County in the State Legislature. I served two years and then May of ’83 we had a vacancy on the City Council and I was invited to apply for that vacancy and the Council allowed me, appointed me to the vacant seat on the Council. That was in May of ’83. But the two years that I served in the Legislature, plus the several years I served on the City Council really was a privilege. It was a…I still occupy a seat on the City Council. In May of 2013 I will have served 30 years. And um, it’s been a gratifying experience. Jim Wise: What has been the most gratifying about it? You have to run every four years to keep your job. Howard Clement: Right and of course the citizens of Durham must of thought I was doing a good job because they allowed me to continue to serve. It’s the fact that you’re in the know. You, you, you’re kept informed as to what’s going on in Durham and um, from the vantage point of being City Councilman. And that was…I saw a lot of ah, a lot of positive changes as a result. I remember when the hotel, it’s now the Marriot, was built. It was one of the first big buildings, commercial in downtown, and then of course there was the Ballpark, Durham Bulls Athletic Park. And there was the American Tobacco Campus, there was DPAC, a very, very ah, successful endeavor that the City got involved in. In fact I was part of the committee that helped bring um, DPAC to downtown. I was a part of, it was a three person committee that went to Connecticut, outside of Boston, outside of Hartford to look at the models of theaters we could bring to downtown Durham to expand our cultural offerings. And that was a great experience and of course you can look at what has happened to DPAC since its coming to Durham. It’s been a big success, a big success I think.

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Jim Wise: A huge success. Howard Clement: And so being a part of that process really was a privilege and a pleasure. Not all members of the council were happy with DPAC, with bringing DPAC, but we were able to convince the majority of the Council that this was an activity that we should support. Which history will tell the results of our efforts and as you indicated, it’s been a huge success. The ballpark itself, um, Durham Bulls Athletic Park is certainly (file is cut off) Track 4 (File continues but time is reset) Howard Clement: been the catalyst for a lot that has happened downtown. And downtown is still growing. I mean the Council is presently involved with the County in bringing a hotel situation downtown, in the old, the tall building downtown.

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Jim Wise: Sun Trust Howard Clement: Yeah, SunTrust, it’s now SunTrust. It was Central Carolina when it was first there. We are joining now with the County. I just read where the County has agreed to join with the City in promoting this Downtown Durham hotel. There is no question we need more, more rooms to, to facilitate the growth and development of downtown. And um, being a part of that process is been very humbling and certainly pleasurable to see what has happened. Um, so, I never, I never said what my first experience with Downtown Durham. Jim Wise: Well, I was going to ask you that. Howard Clement: When I, when I first came to Durham to work, this was in March of ‘60, March of ’61 when I um. I didn’t want to live with my relatives because I didn’t want to add to their burdens, so I went to the Old Jack Tar Hotel which is on the corner of Chapel Hill and Corcoran and this was in March of ’60, ’61 and they told me I couldn’t, I couldn’t live there, I couldn’t stay there. Um, and of course that was a shock to me. I shouldn’t have been surprised but certainly, like I said they determined I couldn’t live there because, because of my race. Um, that, that, that was a catalyst. So we, we’ve come a long way. We’ve come a long and I’m just grateful to be a part of the process.

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Jim Wise: Well you’ve certainly been, done a lot to move the process along, yourself. You were in the sixties, you were involved in the boycott? Is that correct? You were quite prominent in that in fact. Howard Clement: I was Chairman of the Boycott Committee, Black Solidarity. And of course we, we were formed, this was in 1968, right after Dr. King was killed. He was killed in April, I think it was 1968 when group of young, younger African American men and eventually women formed the Black Solidarity Committee and we led a boycott of downtown Durham from June of ’68 till February of ’69. We had asked the merchants in downtown to help us bring changes, um, more job opportunities, open up the recre, the parks and recreations facilities, expand opportunities in schools. We wanted a black superintendent. Um, and things happened. It took us several months and we eventually got most of our requests fulfilled. Not all of them, but most of them, and um, and Durham’s moved forward. I think it’s one of the most, more progressive cities in North Carolina and certainly with the leadership um, the business leadership and the political leadership having coalesced to bring about these changes. It’s been good. Jim Wise: Back in ‘68 Track 5 (time resets)

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Jim Wise: What was the attitude of the political administration toward the Black Solidarity? Were they stonewalling? Howard Clement: Well, I mean, stonewalled at first, but um, when they saw, when they saw how successful the boycott was that, that’s one thing I learned to appreciate, the power of money. We were able to put a clamp on the economic process through the boycott, um, this said to the merchants and Chamber of Commerce we better listen to these folks if we want to move ahead. And so piece by piece things fell into place, but at first Mayor Grabarek, he’s still living, he was, he went along at first but as time passed he became more stubborn, but all that is in the past. We look back and reflect on what has happened. The business interests, particularly the Chamber of Commerce, Bob Booth, um was the Executive Director of the Chamber, they eventually came, went along with what we wanted to do and helped us achieve some of the goals that we had aspired for. But it took time, it took time. And um, it’s a process that I appreciated and um, was grateful to be a part of. Jim Wise: How did your association with Howard Fuller and the Malcolm X Liberation University come about? Howard Clement: Well um, Howard Fuller asked me to serve on the Council of Elders which was paramount to being on the Board at Malcolm X Liberation. And I was one of the first Board Members of Malcolm X. Howard, Howard and I had a, we had a good relationship. Um, people didn’t like Howard because he was, I’m talking about Howard Fuller…of course they didn’t like Howard Clement either, but the fact remains, Howard was a facilitator for change. And um, a lot of the things he did were good for Durham. I thought. He’s now in I think Wisconsin, Milwaukee I think, involved in the education process in the Wisconsin area. But um, there were people like Ben Ruffin, John Edwards, who were part of the movement, very instrumental in bringing about positive change in Durham. That’s about it.

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Jim Wise: What became of Malcolm X Liberation…it went to Greensboro. Howard Clement: Well, it went to Greensboro and eventually um, um, dissolved I mean, um, after it left Durham, my relationship with the Institution um, finally petered out. Um, I didn’t have any contacts with the University once it left Durham. So, that was basically it. Malcolm X was supported by the Episcopal Church and as an Episcopalian um, that was my link. (end of file) Track 6 (time is reset) Howard Clement: to Malcolm X and that’s why Howard Fuller asked me to serve on the Board of Elders, Council of Elders, because I was an active Episcopalian, at the time. Of course that, that brought havoc…are you an Episcopalian?

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Jim Wise: Yeah Howard Clement: That brought havoc to the diocese of North Carolina. Jim Wise: So I have heard. Howard Clement: Were you here when all this was going on?

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Jim Wise: Yeah, I was in Durham. Howard Clement: But you know, as things would happen, I remember when had the (inaudible word) Convention, in I think it was Salisbury or Tarboro and I was fumbling before the diocese, Bishop Frasier to answer to all these charges about the Church involvement. And I mean the Episcopal church it made quite a, a financial offering to support Malcolm X and of course many of the parishioner in the diocese, particularly the white were inflamed of course by this process. But then things happened, thing worked out and of course after Malcolm X left downtown Durham and went to A&T, Greensboro that helped facilitate the process, but um, like I said after Malcolm X left Durham and went to Greensboro my involvement became, very, very limited. So um, but um, that’s basically it. Jim Wise: Well you were here when the Freeway was being built for urban renewal over at Hayti. How did you feel, what was the feeling at that time among African Americans? Howard Clement: Well there was a, I wouldn’t call it a split, but um, the older black community, the John Wheelers, the John Stewarts and persons in that category, who were the actual black leaders in Durham they more or less consented to the request of the white community to allow um, which eventually happened, the destruction of the black business community along Hayti and of course those of us in the younger, the young bucks as they called us, we, while we may have objected there was nothing we could do. So we had to go along and that’s what we did. We just went along with what the John Wheelers and the John Stewarts um, agreed to have done. Um, looking back, that had quite a negative impact on the black community. And there are still a number of us who are still upset by what had happened. I know when I, my wife, my first wife Delores, when we was dating, there wasn’t any place for use to go but downtown. I mean Pettigrew Street, a theater, drug store, restaurants. We couldn’t come to downtown Durham because it was segregated and um, so but um, but the destruction of Hayti... (file ends)

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Track 7 (time resets) Howard Clemente: the black business community and had a very negative impact on the black community. And even today, several years later, um, the rippling effect of that process still lingers. And um, you know me, we’ve come a long way, in bringing the communities together. I learned in my years in Durham the value of cooperation and compromise. It wasn’t easy, but um, there were some benefits to both processes, cooperation and compromise and cooperation. This is where we are today because we’ve had tremendous leaders, Nathan Garret, Dewitt Sullivan, Ed Stewart, Ben Ruffin, and of course Bill Bell, who have been certainly facilitators in the process of cooperation and compromise. Um, and to be associated with those gentleman, The Durham Committee on the Affairs of Black People has been a privilege. That’s basically it. Jim Wise: How have, over the years, how have your relations with the Durham Committee been? Howard Clement: Well, well, there been good times and there’ve been not so good times. I um, Lavonia Allison um, who’s the past chair person of the Committee, we had a very tenuous relationship, you know. But the current Chairman, Phil Cousin, in my opinion, he’s been good for the community because he still, his leadership is still in its infancy as far as the Durham Committee is concerned. But um, the Durham Committee, I’m a product of the Durham Committee, um, (inaudible). The first meeting I ever attended as a resident of Durham was a Durham Committee meeting. That was the first Thursday of March of ’61. My uncle Bill Clement, told me how he was, was introducing me to the community. He said this was one of the organizations that I should affiliate with. He was chairman of the education committee of the Durham Committee. Every second Thursday we would have meetings in the library, at the Stanford L. Warren Library, and I started going to those meetings and that was really my introduction to Durham, and its political committee. I eventually became Chairman of the Education Committee, and mostly we were involved in the school merger with Bill Bill in his capacity as the County Commissioner thought that the systems should merge. And he helped facilitate the merger process. And I think that’s been good for Durham, the merged schools. I wish we could merge City and County Government. (track ends)

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Track 8 (time resets) Howard Clement: This is one thing I’ve been involved with for years but just can’t seem to get anywhere. Jim Wise: Why do you think that is? You sort of brought the merger issue back, put it back on the table a few years ago. Well you’ve spoken about why we need it. I guess at just about every opportunity since then Howard Clement: Yes, that’s right. And um, I still think it’s a process that we need to follow up on. Certainly in light of the economic stresses that the community faces. We don’t need two governments, especially since we’re dealing basically with the same set of people, both City and County. But um, the political will says “no” and it’s been unfortunate. But it’s still a process that we I think we need to keep examining, and um, because I think there’s a lot of value in consummating the City and County merger relationship.

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Jim Wise: City and County merger has worked very well in a lot of places. Why do you think the political will has been lacking because it’s come up over and over again, for more than 50 years Howard Clement: Right, um, well for one thing the Black community through the Committee has frowned on the process. They, the Black community sees, sees it as diminution of its power, through bringing this, the White community into the process and the Black community as best as I can understand it, fears that, many in the Black community would lose a considerable amount of influence and power through a merged relationship. I remember when I was the only Black to support the annexation of Parkwood. This happened in the late ‘90s. Um, there were five African Americans on the County Commissioners at the time, I mean on the City Council. We had, there was a thirteen person Council and five, there were five Blacks on the City Council and four of the five opposed Parkwood, the annexation of Parkwood, because like they saw with merger, at least they speculated about merger, there would be a diminution of power through absorption of the Black and White communities, through an annexation. The closest City Council election was in ’97, I think it was, when the folks in Parkwood fought annexation and I’ll, I’ll always remember how I was castigated by the folks in Parkwood for being the only “colored” Councilman to support annexation. And of course the folks from Parkwood made me a target for, after I was, after I came out in support of annexation. Fortunately I think for the community, the annexation happened and those of us who supported it prevailed. And I’ve always (file ends) Track 9 (time resets Howard Clement: been grateful for the support that the community, even, even while the Durham Committee opposed annexation I was privileged to have enough support in the Black community to support my stance on annexation. Um, and I think its been good for Durham. They brought Parkwood into…of course that’s the only way that Bill Bell got to be Mayor. Cause while he opposed annexation, he lived in an area that was annexed. And of course that was the basis for his eventually becoming Mayor. So um, I can say Jim, that living in Durham, since 1960-61 till the present it’s been a busy time for me. And it’s been a, it’s been a privilege. And um, I like to think I’ve grown with the community. And the fact that the voters have allowed me to serve so long on the City Council, I think is a testimony to their support of what we are trying to do.

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Jim Wise: Has the character of Durham changed since you got here in ’60? Howard Clement: Oh yes, no question. Jim Wise: Does it feel like the same town? Howard Clement: No, it’s, it’s changed. I mean it’s been a positive change, at least in my opinion. Um, to have been a part of that process certainly has made me feel good. And um, things have happened, things have happened in Durham that wouldn’t have happened. The white community…I’ve always said, that if it weren’t for the white community, we wouldn’t have accomplished this much. Because if the white community was opposed to what we were trying to do, it wouldn’t have happened. And I still believe that. Durham is not a majority, minority community. White folks still are the majority in this community Of course, what, what has been good for Durham in my opinion is the fact that we have become more diverse. With the entrée of the growing Latin/Hispanic population that has certainly added to Durham’s growth and development. And I’m just delighted to know, to see how the Latin/Spanish community has coalesced with the African American community along with those in White community to bring about positive change. And um, it’s a process that continues and I’m just glad to be a part of it.

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Part 2 Track 1 Jim Wise: You came up with a great expression at a City Council Meeting years ago, talking about the “been here’s” and the “just comes”. That’s Howard Clement: That is…I mean, you know. I’m, I’m now part of the “been here” community. We um, because the “just comes” that’s an involving, an evolving process. Um, it’s not, it’s, it’s…I mean Durham is one of the more, more active communities in terms of people involvement. I just think about all the neighborhood councils that evolved over the years. The neighborhoods have become a very integral part of the process and continue to be an integral part of the process and that’s been good for Durham. Sometimes it has caused some antagonism between old and new Durham but I’m here to tell you that you know once we can sit down and work, talk through our concerns, our issues some good things come about. Because the political process has been a very active, energizing process and to see, I go back four years ago, when I first met Barack Obama in the Mutual building. Soon after he announced his candidacy a group of us invited him to come to Durham. He met with us on the 12^(th) floor of the North Carolina Mutual Building. And that’s when I really got to meet him. We began the process of communication and I dare say that Durham played a major role in bringing about the results of North Carolina that enabled him to carry the State. This was in 2008. First time that a Democratic candidate for President won North Carolina in the thrust of his win, in my opinion, based on my understanding of facts, Durham was a, played a major role in enabling him to corral enough votes statewide throughout North Carolina to be in the winning, in the winning column as far as actual votes were concerned. Jim Wise: Now Barack Obama is a Democrat. You, yourself for many years were a Republican. Sort of an anomaly in Durham, which has remained solidly Democratic all along.

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Howard Clement: Yeah, well, my, my father and grandfather were Republicans. Of course the Republican Party that they were related to is far different from the Republican party of today. And the same thing about the Democrats. Democratic Party of yesterday is far different from the Democratic party of today. I am now active with the Democratic Party and have certainly contributed (end of file) Part 2 Track 2 (time reset) Howard Clement: Much of my financial resources to ah, to the Democratic Party. Politics is still a very lively venture and of course as we get closer to November the 6^(th) 2012, it’s going to become more lively. Jim Wise: Especially in North Carolina.

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Howard Clement: North Carolina they say is one of the deciding states, and I met with Obama on a number of occasions. In fact my wife went to Washington to meet with Mr. Obama and his team at the end of July. I was grateful, this is very quiet, when Obama told my wife that he remembers me. When he came to Durham during the campaign in 2008, um, we met on the campus of North Carolina Central, along with Chancellor Helms and um, sort of strategized as to how we would bring the students from Central into the political process. It happened, I remember, vividly we had a long march from the campus to um, Fayetteville Street area off of, down by the Chicken Box to enable students to both register and vote and um, that was a very happy process, getting students involved. Jim Wise: What is Barack Obama like in person, just as a guy? Howard Clement: Yeah, well, he’s certainly very humble. You know he sort of takes, I don’t want to say a back seat. Michelle Obama is much more outgoing, much more persuasive, much more aggressive. She’s much more dynamic. Barack more or less takes a quiet, back, back road, back seat. And I think people love him because he could be much more upfront, but like I said, he sort of cherishes being in the back seat, and allowing his staff or his people around him to get the limelight. I guess he’s reached the point where I don’t need to be the big guy, you know, “I’m the President,” and I tell you who has a very close relationship with Barack and that’s Bill Bell. Um, Bill has cultivated a growing relationship between (inaudible) and their respective staffs. And um, Joe Biden was here last, last week. He brought a special message from Barack to give the the Mayor and um, and that’s been good for Durham and good for a growing, thriving relationship. Um, this, this election’s going (file ends) Part 2 Track 3 (time resets)

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Howard Clement: to be very close, but we’re still hopeful that Obama will, will be successful. So um, like I said, we know the value of the political process and it’s because of that political process that a lot of good things have happened in Durham. Jim Wise: For you, what’s been fun about politics, or what is, cause your still involved with politics. What is the fun that has kept you in it for so long? Howard Clement: Well, uh, I just think it’s the process. I’m basically a people person and um, I just enjoy the dynamics of being involved. People ask me about the value of why I am involved, and I say because it keeps me in the know. You know, when things happen in Durham, I’m gonna get a call. Um, of course my health has been giving me a problem and of course you see me, see me with this walker but that hasn’t limited my involvement. I still, I haven’t driven a car since I came to Durham in 1960. In fact my doctor, Dr. Watts, who was the founder of Lincoln Community Health Center, he was also a family doctor, told me not to drive anymore because of my health. That has not limited my involvement the fact that I don’t drive. And people have been very gracious in making sure that I get to various meetings and… Jim Wise: You certainly get around a lot.

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Howard Clement: Oh yeah, so that, that has been positive. I’m 78 years old and I’m still active and grateful. Jim Wise: What else would you like to have on the record? I understand that you are going to donate your papers to the North Carolina Collection at the Library. Howard Clement: Yes, yes, that is my intention. Jim Wise: I’m sure that’s going to be an incredibly valuable resource for future historians.

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Howard Clement: I’ll let history make that decision. Um, but um, that’s what I intend to do and I appreciate being asked by the North Carolina Library Group to do that. I began collecting and saving documents about my family and my involvements when I first came to Durham. Something just told me to just do it, just, so I maintained files in a rather chronological process, so they all, they are at the North Carolina Mutual Building where I still have an office. Jim Wise; Oh, do you get up there very much? Howard Clement: Not as often as I, not as often, I just, I don’t need to go over there. What really brought it home Jim, I went into the building one afternoon and one of the employees accosted me and wanted to know what I was doing there. He’d never seen me and of course while (file ends) Part 2 Track 4 (time resets)

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Howard Clement: he did say he heard the name Howard Clement but he never met Howard Clement, so when he accosted me and wanted to know what I was doing in the building, I told him who I was and, and I congratulated him for being alert. But um, that’s what told me I need to move my location. Because all the folks that I knew at North Carolina Mutual have either retired or passed. So I was a relative stranger in a family? that was my home for years. Jim Wise: Well that must have felt kind of odd. Howard Clement: It was… Chatter between Jim Wise and Ann Clement

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Howard Clement: So, but that’s when I found out that I…so while I keep resources at the Mutual Building, I seldom go there except once a month to get my mail, because most of my relationships spring out of my being on the City Council. But it brought home to me what happens through change. People at the Mutual, like I said, all the folks I had related to had passed on. So now I make my main source, my main office is in City Hall, you know on the second floor. Jim Wise: I’m sure that feels like home… Howard Clement: After all these years. So but it’s been a very pleasant um, relationship with people like Tom Bonfield, the City Manager. It’s made it all the more pleasurable. And of course Bill Bell and I, we went to the same University. Of course he was about five or six years behind me. But um, we both belonged to the same fraternity so that has facilitated relationships and I appreciate what Bill brings to the table. He’s smart and because of his County Commissioner roots that has certainly helped bridge the gap. In my opinion Bill is one of the outstanding leaders in Durham, through history. I mean one of the, from a historical perspective, he is certainly a leader who gets things done. So I appreciate his reach into the community and in the total community, not just the black community. Um, Bill, we owe him a lot in my opinion. So that’s basically it. Jim Wise: Anything else you’d like to…

01:03:45.030 - 01:05:07.900

Howard Clement: Course, I, I cannot overemphasize Jim, the value of my family. Um, my uncle, who came to Durham to the Mutual in 1930, um, he was the first black Chairman of the Airport Authority. (end file) Part 2 Track 5 (time resets) Howard Clement: His wife, my aunt, she served as Chair of the Durham City School System. She became a County Commissioner, I think served three terms as a County Commissioner. Before that she was Chairman of the Public Schools Board of Education. So they contributed much to the community’s growth and my growth as a human. Jim Wise: So you’ve been carrying on a family tradition?

01:05:07.940 - 01:07:17.880

Howard Clement: Trying to at least. And um, both Bill and Josephine. Did you know them? Jim Wise: I know of them. I think, I met Josephine. Howard Clement: But ah, both of them, even though Josephine was from Atlanta and Bill was from Charleston, they both are buried here in Durham. And I appreciate that, because they helped Durham become what it is. And people loved Josephine. She was a wonderful lady. And um, certainly a gracious, compassionate human being. And Jim Hunt, spoke at her funeral, because they had quite a viable relationship. That was good. So when I came to Durham, I had one big, two, they call it two. I had family here, and they helped me become adjusted to this community, pointed me in the right direction, made me, made the necessary contacts that I needed, which I am grateful. Jim Wise: Family’s pretty important isn’t it?

01:07:17.940 - 01:08:14.400

Howard Clement: There’s no question about it. We tried to press upon our children and their children the value of maintaining a positive family relationship. It means so much. And I can testify to that. So, that’s where we are. So, I don’t know what else I can talk about. Jim Wise: Well, we’ve covered a lot of ground. Then again, thank you very much. I appreciate your time and it’s always great to see you. It’s good to see you back at the Council Meetings. Your chair looked mighty lonely up there. Howard Clement: But I wasn’t well. You know. Jim Wise: That’s what I heard.

01:08:14.400 - 01:09:48.410

Howard Clement: and I was going through this process with this disease that afflicted me. It was a severe constraint in moving from point A to point B. But um, I’m back, you know. So God must have intended me to stay here, because I could have easily gotten swept up. I like to think he still has me for my talents, or whatever resources I bring to the table. I have a good wife and um, great children, grandchildren and a granddaughter that (file ends) Part 2 Track 6 (time resets) Howard Clement: is a freshman at UNC-Chapel Hill. I have a grandson who will be graduating from college in May of 2013. And um, I’m just grateful to (inaudible) Jim Wise: Do you think any of your grandchildren will end up going into politics?

01:09:48.970 - 01:13:02.180

Howard Clement: I don’t know. Um, I tried to encourage my eldest daughter, who is a licensed lawyer and CPA but she lives in New Jersey and I’m trying to get her to come back to Durham. She um, did Triangle Park Company…what’s the name…the pharmaceutical company up there. Jim Wise: Oh, Glaxo? Howard Clement: Glaxo gave her her start. When she came out of, when she came out of college, she was certified public accountant, CPA, hey gave her her first big job in, in as an accountant and then sent her to Law School. So it took care of all her, took care of all of her legal expenses, after she passed her Bar, took care of all those costs. She worked for them for a while until a Japanese Company, Pharmaceutical Japanese Drug Company bought her services. And of course this was a point of friction between us. I felt she owed so much to Glaxo, she shouldn’t leave them, but she did what she wanted to do, which I appreciated. She went along with this company and one of the results of which she got a trip to Tokyo once a quarter. She’d be flying back and forth to Japan. The home base of the company she’s with. That’s what she wanted to do so I respected that. As a result of that relationship, she’s flown all over the world. She’s seen so many things, things that I could just read about. She actually visited and learned the culture and it’s been good. Jim Wise: It’s a great opportunity for her.

01:13:05.420 - 01:14:24.480

Howard Clement: No question. She just turned 50 and I asked her about being, being married. She said, Daddy, I’ve got problems of my own, ain’t no need for me to ask for more problems. But she’s doing quite well. My second daughter, um, graduated from UNC-Chapel Hill with a major in Human Relations. She’s been with Duke for almost 26 years. And um, she’s grown. My third daughter is a graduate of Hampton where her mother, her grandfather, I think two broth…two uncles graduated from Hampton. She’s working in A Health, a Health company relationship with the Department of Social Services (file ends) Part 2 Track 7 (time resets) Howard Clement: in Robeson County. She lives in Lumberton, she and her son, my youngest grandson, Arthur John Howard Clement the 6^(th). Jim Wise: The 6^(th)?

01:14:39.760 - 01:15:52.390

Howard Clement: Um hmm. That’s what she insisted on my youngest daughter. She wanted to name him, her child after me with the condition that he be Arthur John Howard Clement the 6^(th). Of course I was so grateful that she wanted me, wanted to name her child after me. And he’ll be six years old next week. Next week he’ll be six years old. And um, so that’s…I’ve really come, like I hinted. I’ve come to value family. I have a brother who um, is a retired architect. He lives in Charleston where we grew up. Actually he lives in North Charleston which is a part of Charleston County, where we, where we both grew. And um, which was the spring board to our growth and development. Um, which I’ll always appreciate, Charleston gave me a start and I’m grateful for it. But I owe so much to Durham, North Carolina. I was born in Rowan County, which is just outside of Mecklenburg County. I was born on the farm with my great grandparents, both of whom…My great grandfather, my grandfather’s father, um owned this farm in Rowan County. I don’t know what my parents were doing. Why, why, what, why they were in Rowan, why they were there, I never found out, but um, that’s where…and we still have property there. A place called Cleveland, which is about 13 miles from Salisbury. Do you remember Jim Graham? He used to be… Jim Wise: Oh yes. Howard Clement: His farm and my great grandparents’ farm were adjacent to each other. And um, Jim Graham knew my great grandparents and um, Jim Graham was quite a…he brought a lot to the table. People loved him. He and Thad Eure, you know were old, old friends. And I got to know them when I was in the legislature. When Jim Graham found out that I was born in Rowan County, where he grew up, that just…the relationship was enamored because of that. So I learned how to milk, milk a cow, slop the hogs, so there’s a little bit of country in my bones. Um, one, maybe just mention this. When my great grandfather Rufus, Rufus Clement, when he came from Tennessee through Hickory and he ended up in Rowan County. Um, he was unlettered (file ends) Part 2 Track 8 (time resets)

01:15:52.390 - 01:16:06.890

Howard Clement: but his wife, my great grandmother, she, if I understand it, and I knew her, because she lived until she was 106. Um, she um, she learned the value of education and through her my great grandfather Rufus decided he was going to…he legacy was going to be public education. Even though he was unlettered, he, he learned the value of education. So anyhow, to make a long story short, um, he gave Rowan County sufficient real estate on which to build a school for colored children. And to make a long story even shorter, the school eventually became the Rufus Clement High School. And um, in 1968, I think it was, we learned that the Federal Judge had ordered that the schools in Rowan County to be integrated. But before the white parents would come to R. E. Clement High School they had to change the name. And so that’s what happened. It just became Rowan, West Rowan. So the family, my father and uncle and yours truly, we had made various appeals to the County Commissioners, the Rowan County School Board, even to my church, the Episcopal Church, because the Diocese of North Carolina encompassed Rowan County. So I even went to, to the Diocese of North Carolina. There are three diocese, Episcopal diocese in North Carolina. This was the Diocese that the jurisdiction covered Rowan County, appealing to have the name changed. And all this is in history. But the County Commissioners, the School Board, the Diocese of North Carolina wouldn’t, I mean even though we thought we had all the equities. In fact all the land was given to Rowan County by a former slave, but they didn’t…the ruling authorities they never relented on wanting to go back to the R.E. Clement School. And that has remained a very sore spot in our history. Jim Wise: I can understand why. Howard Clement: My grandfather, my father, uncle, Howard Clement made various (inaudible word) appeals to the governing authorities in Rowan County, but they never remanded. Someone was going to write a book about that saga and of course I don’t know what ever happened to it, but a lot of people felt it was and I’m quoting, “it was reprehensible” what the County did. And the school is still thriving and we have reunions and I’ve been to various reunions in Rowan County, Salisbury, Catawba trying to get the name resurrected so to speak. But nothing, nothing has happened. I wish we could do something before I pass away, because ah, I’m the last link in that chain. So um, I talked to my daughters about it, but you know that’s always been, I have a cousin Arthur John the 5^(th) who I think will resume the struggle so to speak. Because we though, we still think it’s very unfair and unjust what happened. And I wish we could rectify the situation, certain before I pass away. So but that’s basically it. I don’t have anything else I can say Jim except to thank you and your associates for coming to us to tell our story. Jim Wise: Well I certainly appreciate you telling it.

01:17:02.100 - 01:17:09.490

Howard Clement: I don’t know what else I can say. Jim Wise: Well thank you very much for your time. Howard Clement: You know how to get in touch with me in case you need to follow up or have questions that need to be answered. End of Interview