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Meredythe Holmes: Good afternoon. This is Meredythe Holmes, and today I am interviewing James E Sanson for the museum of Durham history. I'm very excited about this interview because James is a long time Durhamite, and he's

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got a lot to tell us. So James, let's get started. Were you born in Durham? I couldn't remember. James Sansom: Yes, born in Durham, raised in Raleigh. Meredythe Holmes: Okay, interesting. How did that

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happen? James Sansom: Well, my mother accepted a position at Shaw University, and my father became the city executive of mechanics and farmers bank in Raleigh. So after I was born in 58 we moved

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to Raleigh in 59 so tell me their names. Vivian McCarter was my mother's name, you know, Merrick and my father's name was James Joseph Sansom Jr. My father was from Atlanta, Georgia. My mom was from Durham.

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Meredythe Holmes: That's right, I know that Merrick name. It's been, it's a long time Durham name. So can you tell us just briefly, the background from that whole family. So just give us a little history there.

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James Sansom: Well, I probably start with my great grandfather's John Merrick. You know, on one side, on the other side, Aaron McDuffie Moore. And Aaron McDuffie Moore was the first black physician in Durham. He also was the co founder of

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North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Company, along with my other great grandfather, John Merrick, and they built that company and built it upon a lot of the work of so many people throughout the years that were employed by the life insurance

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company. They probably had up to 2000 employees, probably at the peak of their business. Meredythe Holmes: That's amazing. One of the largest African American owned businesses in the country, I

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think, at the James Sansom: time, yeah. And even in the United States, she had the largest black home Meredythe Holmes: during that time. And so your mother was

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Vivian McCotta Merrick, yes. From John Merrick, through that line, right James Sansom: through Aaron McDuffie Moore, yeah. Meredythe Holmes: Moore, right, yeah. Very good. And tell us

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about your dad. Your Yeah. James Sansom: My father, again, was from Atlanta, Georgia. His parents owned a florist shop on Sweet Auburn Avenue, so that's where he grew up, and was able to attend Lab High [Atlanta

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University Laboratory High School] and then Morehouse, and then he matriculated on to North Carolina Central law school, and also taught law school part time at the university while he was there,

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Meredythe Holmes: very good. I'm interested in all that because it also leads back to your your roots in African American businesses and and you maintain that as far as your own career is concerned. So tell us again where you went to school and and

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then how you got into business. James Sansom: I am a graduate of Howard University Class of 1980 I only applied to two schools, and that was Howard University and Morehouse College. And in high school, I was very involved

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in athletics, both basketball and soccer, and I was admitted to the Hall of Fame at Ravenscroft, primarily because of my soccer attributes. So I was recruited heavily, but I told my coach, I said I didn't want to waste a college's time,

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but pretty much convinced I want to attend a black university. So I was looking for academics. I was looking for away from home. I was looking where I could also continue my soccer playing years and Howard really fit the bill on all of those places. They had

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just won the national NCAA one championship in soccer in 1974 two years before I came so. Yeah, they were quite outstanding, and I was fortunate to be able to play all four years there. I'm sure they were happy to get you too. Yeah,

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yeah, if I had to do it over again, Meredythe I'd do the same thing, sure. Meredythe Holmes: And just briefly, because you mentioned it, but didn't really tell us a whole lot about it, but we do

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know that Ravenscroft is in Raleigh, so we won't leave them out because of that, but I think that was kind of a feather in your cap too at that time, because tell us just briefly about that

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James Sansom: experience, it was by accident that I attended Ravenscroft. I'm Catholic, and I had gone to Catholic schools up until the eighth grade. Even in Raleigh, we had a black Catholic school called St Monica's. But in 1968 Bishop Waters decided he

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wanted to merge all of those independent schools that were black into the main system. So when I was going to fourth grade, I was blended into cathedral. So from cathedral, I

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was there from fourth to eighth and like my sisters, I would have been going to Cardinal Gibbons for high school, but when I was going to ninth grade, the Dominican nuns were the teaching body there, and at that time, their mission had changed,

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and they were no longer teaching at Cardinal Gibbons. It was really a transitional year, I see. So my parents said, well, we need to get you situated somewhere else. And they came up with Ravenscroft. My father was very high on, you know, higher

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academics and education, and that's probably what attracted him there. Sure I did not want to go there. I was hollering, screaming, everything you could do. And I said, I'll go there on one condition that if I have any problems, I get to choose my own

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high school. And he agreed to that. So I went there. Didn't have any problems. I was the first black graduate of Ravenscroft, and it turned out to be a good experience for me. Meredythe Holmes: Good, good. So that must have been a pretty

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popular school. I can't imagine. I've heard a lot of good things about Ravenscroft. It's academically a very strong school, so I'm sure it did you well while you were there. James Sansom: Yeah. And people asked me, they said it must have

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been tough James being the only one. And I answered that in saying, not as tough as if 25 others would have been coming with me, you know, I the only black person, and a couple more behind me. We really didn't pose any threat, you know, to the

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establishment there. But if 20 more of the same color of mine had gone at the same time, yeah, I'm sure it had been a different response. Meredythe Holmes: People would have been a little more worried

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about exactly, exactly. But with just you and maybe a few others James Sansom: trail behind me, one No, but Meredythe Holmes: they prepared you well for Howard they did. And then after that, you said you got your masters,

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James Sansom: yeah, and I was always in finance, because even in high school, my last year, I was working part time at the bank and bookkeeping and teller work. So I'd always been acclimated and worked, you know, in the bank at an early age, so

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I had a lot of experience. Meredythe Holmes: I'm sure that made your father very happy. Yeah, you had the same interest, right in finance. James Sansom: He was, he was hard charging

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Meredythe Holmes: for a lot of good things about Was it hard to follow in his footsteps? James Sansom: Like I say, he was a hard charger. Yeah, I wasn't as smart as my dad. He was quite a reader. He just read, and

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that's why he was good in law school. He read all the time. Yeah, the time he spent reading was the time I spent playing ball. You know, we had different soccer, basketball, basketball, I was like my mother in terms of the phys ed attributes. Yeah, I

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played almost every sport, and that's the way she she was. Meredythe Holmes: That's interesting, yeah, that you took after your mother with James Sansom: phys ed and health. Yeah, for sure. I. Huh,

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wonderful. Meredythe Holmes: So when you got your where, tell us about getting your master's. Did you get it right after, right after James Sansom: I worked one year, one year after I finished

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Howard, then I went back to Atlanta University and finished in 83 I was there from 81 to 83 okay, for their MBA program, and from there, I was recruited by ncnb. At the time, they took three of us from my graduating class, and I went to Greensboro,

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and my other two classmates went to Charlotte, and both of us went through the credit management programs there. Meredythe Holmes: Did you like working with NCNB? Yeah. James Sansom: Meredythe, I really wanted to work longer

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than three and a half years with them, but I had gone through a divorce, and I wanted to relocate. And I wanted to relocate back to Washington, DC, where I had a lot of friends, a lot of classmates, sure everybody I was meeting here was

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either related to me, and I needed to kind of or knew you and your little boys. I needed to go back to where I didn't know as many folk and met some new ones. Meredythe Holmes: So that's interesting. Tell us a little

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bit about your personal life, so we've got a good feel for your academic life and your athletics and all of that was good, but tell us a little about your sports life. You just said that you, I mean, I'm sorry, your personal life, yeah, you went

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through a divorce, and I know, I'm sure that was difficult, because it was a fairly young age, right? James Sansom: Yeah, yeah, fairly young, but only together, maybe a year before that occurred, and that was for the best of both

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parties, sure, and I made a vow to myself that next time would not be long distance. So I had met June my senior year at Howard. One of my best friends was at Greensboro College, and we all went up and we had pizza. At the time, I had a girlfriend.

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June had a boyfriend, so we weren't paying each other any mind. But I know the girl with the long ponytail down to her behind, never forgot her. And about 10 years later, that same friend said, you know, June has moved back home, and now you

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move back to DC to work, maybe y'all need to rekindle, right? And we did, and we didn't have women attached at the time, and timing is everything, yeah, we just went from there. It just worked out, beautifully, wonderful.

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Meredythe Holmes: So how many years ago was it that James Sansom: we've been married? We met about 38 years ago, and we've been married 35 excellent. Meredythe Holmes: I think that sounds like a really good move

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to me. James Sansom: Yeah, it just doesn't seem that long. Seems like only yesterday Meredythe Holmes: with a ponytail down to her behind,

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huh? James Sansom: That long hair? Meredythe Holmes: Well, I love these pictures because I can see you make a beautiful couple. I could say that, yeah, both look

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like movie stars. So you came when you came back, and then I'm sure your dad was happy that you decided, ultimately to relocate to Durham, James Sansom: yeah, yeah, I think he was and as you know, he

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died young at 72 Yes. And 89 Yeah. And I moved back in 91 Okay, yeah. Meredythe Holmes: And then did you move over? Did you move when you moved back? Did you take over as president of the bank?

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Or what did you do? James Sansom: I was a senior commercial lender and city executive for Durham, Meredythe Holmes: okay, right. And so tell us again about that

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bank and about what it was like taking over, because I think that's a story in itself. James Sansom: Yeah, in a lot of ways, succeeded Mr. Harrison, who just passed away in Durham. And Mr. Harrison was just shy of

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his 100th birthday. My good in December, but when I was coming back to mechanics and farmers in 91 Mr. Harrison had just retired, I think in 90 right, he was president. Then he was he was a loan officer in the downtown Durham branch, so I

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kind of fulfilled that position and moved on up to city executive and Chief Lending Officer and interim president for a period of time. Yeah, before I left mechanics and farmers. Years and went to a couple other institutions to

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finish out my career. Jim seals came in as president in 2014 and then I left the bank in 2016 and I joined Bank of North Carolina, and then both Bank of North Carolina was acquired by Pinnacle Bank out of Nashville,

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I see, so that's who I work. Was that in Durham, Durham and they had an office right by the ballpark, right upstairs. My office overlooked the playing field. Oh, that must have been which was nice, yeah. And then I left them to finish out my

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career at self help on Main Street, and I was there for three and a half years. And I was a faith based sector director, as well as I managed our two commercial lenders in our California locations in the state of California,

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interesting, and that was a good experience in California. Yeah, they're in about nine states now. Meredythe, self help is quite a wonderful company and entity. Sure is very Meredythe Holmes: good. And when did you retire?

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James Sansom: Then I retired in January of 22 not that long. This illness hit me about three months after just retired. Oh, my goodness. Out of nowhere for no unseen reason, I was in perfect health, really perfect

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Meredythe Holmes: health, and what, what tell us, what it is they James Sansom: have no diagnosis. They at Duke. They were unable to diagnose my illness, my goodness. So that's why I

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eventually came home to Duke hospice care because I had been through all their tests at least four times they weren't able to come up with anything. So I said, I'm taking it home with the Lord is my roommate, and we'll be okay. You will be okay,

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Meredythe Holmes: absolutely, and you had a they had a good benefits plans, I'm sure they stood by you. James Sansom: Yeah, yes, very well. And I probably have outlived longer than my doctors probably expected me to live

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here in hospice. Yeah, it's been over two years now. Meredythe Holmes: Yeah, that is a long time, but you have a good wife and a good family, I'm sure that makes all James Sansom: great team. It does. Yeah, great team every

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which way you want to look at it. Meredythe Holmes: And the other thing that I think is so great this, and that is the technology now that you can do so much more now that then you could have even just a few years ago, when

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you think of the meetings that people have on Zoom, yeah, and the technology is just amazing. Do you? Are you able to take advantage of any of that? James Sansom: I do some of it, but

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I've got a good friend on Al that has ALS, and he gets around real good. He's trying to come out here to visit me soon, and he uses it to a lot more extent than I do, yeah, and He's younger. He's kind of an oddball for ALS, and that it got him at

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a much younger age. He's not the normal time frame, sure, yeah. For ALS. I was Meredythe Holmes: just talking to Nnenna Freelon recently. James Sansom: I was get ready to say, yeah. And Phil was a little

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bit outside, you know, being in his late 60s, that's normally not the timeframe either. He was older. Meredythe Holmes: He was older. Yes, James Sansom: typically, it's like, you know, 50 to almost 60

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in there is the prime age. Yeah, he was beyond that, right? Yeah. She doing well. Nnenna, Meredythe Holmes: she's doing very well. She's doing very well. She wrote a beautiful book, and, yeah, and the

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artistry that she had in her music she put in that book, that's amazing. James Sansom: I know she did, yes, quite amazing. Heart pierced,

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Meredythe Holmes: that's right. So I really appreciate all that, all that you know, that you've shared with us. I did want to ask you about your children, sure. James Sansom: And yeah, we have one son, Joshua, Garrett Sanson.

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His middle name comes from his grandfather's name. Name on June side. June's father, his name was Garrett Stewart, yeah, so he's got his middle name, and he's 22 he lives downtown. He has his own brand focusing on nutrition and fitness. He also

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works for PF chains part time. He went to LSU for one year, decided he was more entrepreneurship minded, and he's been trying to build his brand ever since then, and Meredythe Holmes: good for him, less like living downtown, I bet

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he James Sansom: does, and he presents well. He conducts himself. People think He's much older than 22 when they meet him, and he's a natural in front of a camera. He he does that

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with ease. Meredythe Holmes: Yeah, you have to get him to film, film your story sometimes, right? James Sansom: That would be a good one. It would,

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sure would. Meredythe Holmes: This is an oral history that we're doing today. So unfortunately, we won't have any any filming to show our audience, but we will be able to have this interview

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available on audio for audio hearing at the North Carolina collection. There will also be a link on the Museum of Durham histories on their website, there will be a link to this interview. So I want to thank you for sharing your story with

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us. I know it's, it's, it's sometimes hard for people to talk about themselves, you know, and but you've done a great job, and James Sansom: I appreciate you. Don't know where to

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start or where to end. Well, this is pieces of it. Then you can edit it and put it together exactly. Meredythe Holmes: Well, this is great. So thank you very much for being with us today. Thank God.