00:00:32.350 - 00:00:39.670

Interviewer: This is Michele Lanier interviewing John C. Scarborough, also known as Skeepie at Scarborough and Hargett Funeral Home. Excuse me John C. Scarborough III, otherwise known as Skeepie at Scarborough and Hargett Funeral Home on Old Fayetteville Road. Old Fayetteville Street in Durham, North Carolina. Today's date is Thursday, November 20^(th), 2014. Do I have your permission to audio record this interview? Skeepie Scarborough: You have my permission. Interviewer: Thank you so much. I am delighted to be here with you. It's been nearly a decade since I've had the honor to interview you. The last time we talked it was about your time at Palmer Memorial Institute in Sedalia. Today we are going to talk about Durham, and one of the things that I so appreciate about you is that you understand...you said, I'm the third. You put yourself in context of a legacy. So I'd actually like to take you back and invite you to talk about the first patriarch in your family who called Durham home. And I understand that that's your grandfather? Skeepie Scarborough: Right.

00:01:17.230 - 00:13:43.670

Interviewer: Would you tell me his full name and tell me how he came to Durham. Skeepie Scarborough: My grandfather John Clarence Scarborough Senior came to Durham in 1900. The history before then is that my great grandfather, J.C. Hargett, 1858, he was born as a slave, into slavery. And in 1878 he opened up a store in Kinston, North Carolina, a general store. He also had, there was a mill out there. He was also an activist in the community, helping others who once were slaves to work, to be independent and have their own business, if they could. What started all of this in 1871, and as I tell you this story, this young man was asking me one day at the funeral home about our history and I was sharing it with him, and as I did, I noticed he was, not laughing but smiling. And it all began with a gentleman by the name of Mr. Lowery, a colored man at that time who had a large grocery store. My grandfather, Scarborough Senior told me it was something like a Food Lion, just that big. But he passed, and a white funeral director conducted the funeral services, but he would always put colored people in the basement and put them in a horse drawn wagon and my great grandfather didn't like that. So he and about 4 other friends of the deceased Mr. Lowery, approached the white proprietor of the funeral home and pleaded with him to bring their friend upstairs, put him in a horse drawn hearse. And he said, “I will not do that.” Then my great grandfather said, “I will open up my own business to give my people dignity in death,” and he did that. And it was because of that, as to why we're in business today but while I was standing there sharing this story with the young man who had his head down smiling. When he looked up he said, “Mr. Scarborough, I did not introduce myself. My name is Randy Lowery. That was my great grandfather.” I said, “Wow.” About many things happened in that period of time. In terms of our sister city, I have to bring that in. About 1882, the medical college under the auspices of Shaw in Raleigh produced or had 80 young black men who wanted to be doctors. Six white doctors of Raleigh taught them. And at the end of those 4 years, 1886, they became doctors, but in 1888, out of that group, Dr. A.M. Moore came to Durham to be the first black doctor, colored doctor to come into the City. Later 7 others followed. Which names still exist here in the community. Dr. Mills, Dr. Struderick, Dr. Christmas, Dr. Page another Dr. Moore, I didn't get his first name. But Aaron Moore was already here in 1888. They came after. Dr. Charles Shepard, the brother of Dr. James E. Shepard came to Durham as well. And as he did, he brought the talent of skilled doctor in the sense that he performed operations. He was the first to do abdominal surgery in North Carolina...colored doctor. Which he did. And he also was at one time in charge of the Lincoln Hospital after it was built in 1902. And it seems as though those years, as there looked at in Durham, small Durham, Hayti – the area we're talking about now is where everyone came about 1866 and continued to come into this area, called Hayti eventually. With that being the case, the Royal Nights of King David was a Masonic organization that helped people, colored people who did not have money to deal with what they had to deal with to live. This being the case, eventually, the North Carolina Mutual, began to do the same thing that they were doing, to work to help people who needed help financially. To help people have a job, make money, have money in their pockets, this became very evident. About 1902 or before them, possibly 1901 or 1900 the black people of Durham...I use the terminology back then it was colored at that time, felt that we needed a colored hospital. Because at the same time, the white community they were getting together to build a white hospital. There is one man, I don't know whether the terminology is correct as far as I'm using it, but I always call him “the godfather,” that was Mr. Washington Duke. Because it was between he and 2 other men of the community, black men, Merrick, Spaulding got together and discussed it and the Duke's, that family setting, Washington Duke's family, Buck Duke...Buchanan Duke's 2 sons made it possible financially to build the Lincoln Hospital which was right in the midst of the expressway as we see it today, at the corner of Cozart and Proctor Street. About 1902 is when it was built. A regular house, and as time moved on, 1908, Mechanics and Farmers Bank, third oldest black bank in the United States came about. My grandfather was one of the original members of the Board and he was on the Board for 60 years. But with that being the case, about 1910, Dr. James E. Shepard came into being, a graduate of the Shaw, under the auspices of Shaw University, who helped form the institution we now called North Carolina Central University, going back different name changes, and I'm trying to recall the very first and the second name change, (Shitawkwa?). First was a normal trading school. Teachers. Then North Carolina College at Durham and then North Carolina College at Durham, I've said it twice, but going back before then it was North Carolina College for Negroes. And I was there when it was North Carolina College at Durham, now North Carolina Central University. But Dr. James E. Shepard again, a graduate of the Shaw division as a doctor, was the first African American, colored doctor to do abdominal surgery at that time. Eventually taken over the guiding movements of the Lincoln Hospital. About 1912, Mutual Savings and Loan came about. You had what you call, at that time in the downtown area, on that particular street, “Black Wall Street.” At the same time there were other black businesses downtown too. And I've always said that Durham had a strange relationship between colored and white, going back to that point. And they all seemed to have the mindset of working it out. Well you see we never had any lynchings or hangings or murders. And when I say murders, questionably there was one. You probably heard of Camp Butner, when they had a military base there. And one of the soldiers, colored soldiers got on the bus on Fayetteville Street. A white bus driver told him to go to the back with no one on the bus and he said he wasn't going to do that and they had words and he turned to walk off the bus, the driver shot him in the back. And of course the military from Butner was coming up with Jeeps and all, machine guns, they were stopped by a black policeman who talked some sense into the situation, which contained that right there as it was. The area across the tracks on this side of Pettigrew Street has always been called Hayti. How it got the name no one seems to know. But if you look at the steeple on St. Joseph's Church, the very top is a Haitian symbol and no one knows how it got up there supposedly. But that's some of the experiences. Interviewer: Tell me a little bit more about your grandfather. Describe him for me. What was he like? Skeepie Scarborough: He was awesome in the sense that he took being right, being right. He said what should be done to think mentally, strongly over what you had to do, emotionally it does not work. But my main thinking of my grandfather and if, when I write my book, I want to call it “Walking with my Grandfather, Riding with my Father.” We would walk to work, to Sunday School, to church, rather than drive. And as we would walk up Fayetteville Street, passing by the Algonquin Club House, which they say doesn't have that much history, but I have to come back and talk about the Algonquin Club House, next door to our home, next door to the W.D. Hill recreation center, which was at one time, the USO where soldiers used to come from Camp Butner and fraternize and have a place to go for fun and enjoyment. As we would walk up Fayetteville, he would point out different homes. My grandfather would point out different people, what their names were, what they did and to remember this. And this is Mr. so and so, this is Mrs. so and so and as he pointed out. On Sunday mornings we would walk to Sunday School, stay for church and walk back. I was bout 6, 7, 8 years old and my mother sang in the choir. Of course she would drive, my father would drive but I would walk with my grandfather to think about the different things. He was always pointing, talking and teaching as he did that. And in Hayti, when he really let me know what it was all about, he stopped in the middle of Hayti, right there at the corner of Fayetteville and Fowler where the Merrick's lived on the corner and 4 or 5 houses down the street on the same side Mr. C.C. Spaulding did as well. And he would point out what Hayti had. He said, “Son, in this area,” and he would rattle it off. We had 3 service stations on Fayetteville Street. In all there were 6 black service stations, colored at the time...terminology. You had 2 drug stores, 2 movie theaters, 2 hotels. Really 3 drugstores, Dr. James, we had a large family here as well. A multiplicity of restaurants, barbershops, beauty shops, but to go down the list, I will only say colored one time. There was one oriental restaurant, 3 white businesses, 150 colored businesses. A barber college and beauty college, a shoe repair school, and radio and TV repair school, 2 movie theaters, 2 drug stores, 3 drug stores, 2 hotels. On Fridays, people, colored people living in different areas of Durham would come to Fayetteville Street to fellowship, to dance, to cut up, to enjoy company where everybody was around. The people of Durham, black, colored, negro, whatever were awesome because it seems as though the people who came into the area of Hayti, those early years, back in the 1860s, 70s, 80s, 90s...when they came they seemed to have brought something to the table, to make it very inspiring. Everybody had something to contribute. And my grandfather, I'll never forget, ran for City Council and he got, I forget how many votes. It's in the newspaper and white people were amazed at the time at the number of votes he got. He was also voted to be the leader of colored voters group. And my grandfather, when he was recognized by the Durham Business and Professional Chain, which was founded by Booker T. Washington, was called the Durham Business and Professional Chain or something cognitive description in that vein, he told the group, and I can add on to that, I have literature of Tuskegee Institute where he would go down to their ceremonies, graduations and speakers who would be there. But Booker T., Dr. Booker T. Washington came through Durham and gathered up some of the men to go on up to Virginia. I don't remember if it was Hampton or what part of Virginia, but I want to say Hampton, where they were planning on having the National Negro Business League and eventually they did. But whenever Booker T., Dr. Booker T. Washington would come to Durham, he would come by our home because he and my grandfather were friends. But I'll never forget, I gave a card to my aunt, his daughter, my grandfather's daughter, youngest daughter, who had me to give that card so that she may give it to Duke Archives and it said, “John, I'll be in Durham in 2 weeks. I look forward to sitting on your front porch on your rocking chair. Signed Dr. Booker T. Washington.”

00:20:44.200 - 00:26:31.080

Interviewer: So, would you also do a profile or a portrait of your father. You introduced me to your grandfather. Skeepie Scarborough: Ok, my father, that's why I said, “riding with my father.” My father was in the community. He helped a lot of people. And I'll never forget by seeing that when he passed, I had to pay this particular bank for notes that he cosigned for people to help them with their homes, having no money and all that. It was something like $34,000 that I had to pay that bank for helping. Some people paid it back, some did not. They just said, well you can afford to pay it in that matter. Think about that, but my father was always trying to help to make sure. My grandfather didn't play. He would tell you whatever monies you had, don't just splurge. Hold onto it and have a purpose for spending it. And that's, that's what he would say and what he would do. I was sharing this story earlier, you may not have heard me, but I will never forget, back then of course, we had the drinkers, getting high on whatever they drank. Today it's drugs, but one day when I came from school, I was in 3^(rd) grade, and I was standing outside of the funeral home, on Pettigrew Street and as I stood there, my grandfather was sitting down on the corner, with 3, or 4 of the men who drank a lot. And they were trying to get him to give them money so they could go in and buy whatever. And my grandfather said, I will not give you the money. I will take you in so you can buy food to eat. Nothing to drink. And he used to remind me of that. To help these people, because they need help. They are abusing themselves. Knowing that they cannot drink, which is not good for their bodies the way (?). But as they sat there, this car came down the street and pulled over. And people were coming from work. It was after . And this man got out of the car and when he did everyone started clapping. People passing by, shaking his hand, touching him on the shoulder. He was hugging some people and when finally got over to the corner, where my grandfather was, my grandfather was standing with the men he was there to help, who were standing clapping, and he hugged all 4 men, including my grandfather. And with that in mind, they sat down, and I kept standing there and as people would pass by, they were high fiving, laughing and talking. They were just sitting there talking, and the people coming down the street in cars on the horns, waving. So eventually, this man who just sat down, got up. Everyone got up, he shook their hands and gave my grandfather a hug and got back in the car. And my father had come out, by that time and was watching. He had his arm around my shoulder and I watched what was going on with the man in the car. And as the car slowly came down Pettigrew Street, the driver blew the horn and waved at my father. My father waved back. And the man who was sitting stretched out the window and shouted to my father. And my father started laughing and shouted back to him and they started laughing together. I said, “Dad, who was that man that you just shouted at?” He said, “Skeepie, that was Mr. C.C. Spaulding, President of North Carolina Mutual.” These are the things...excuse me sinus...that I often think about, because back then, everybody was somebody. And if you didn't have people to work together to make sure you had a roof to live under, you had money in your pockets and you had a job, that was back at that time. Interviewer: You mentioned walking with your grandfather to church. Where did you attend church? Skeepie Scarborough: St. Joseph's AME Church.

00:26:31.520 - 00:37:16.310

Interviewer: Can you describe what that church was like to you as a child growing up there? Skeepie Scarborough: Looking at history, and watching people who, to me brought something to the table. Because in church, they could stand and orate and talk and share and people would get together and talk and make sure whatever was done was right and correct. I, my father, was always there to help. Now as I was saying to someone earlier this afternoon, my parents, my grandparents on my father's side as well as my mother's side could carry their own weight with whatever needed to be done. And it was a joy whenever I see my father pull up to our home. I mean he would ride us around on Sundays. I always looked forward to that Sunday ride in the evening, 6 or 7 o'clock. He'd take my mother and I bring us right around Durham, and showing us things and speaking to people and he'd stop and talk. And all of that. It was a treat to watch and to listen to what was doing on. My father never saw me or took me to any games, per say. He was always working. But he made it possible for my mother and I to do what we needed to do. I was very fortunate. I went to Hillside for 7 weeks and I transferred to a Quaker school after that. Not to much later. And I was often questioned, why did you, why did your parents send you away? Well, I know now in my adult life why, and I understood why I had to work as much as I had to work. Because my grandfather always said you are going to work regardless of whether you go to school or not. My father had to work pretty hard in dealing with college and working. One thing that decided, and I have never said this publicly. One day I was on Main Street with my mother at Kress's corner. Cars parked on both sides of the street, like they do now. And this elderly black lady, colored lady, was walking across the street slowly, and she came between the two cars. And this white man was trying to get through and he pushed her aside and came on through, and when I saw that, I was angry. I was about 12 or 13. And I turned to kick him as he passed by me, and my mother grabbed me and yanked me. And she said, “Don't you ever...” She read me loud and clear, ever do that. You are going to kick him because he pushed that lady out of the way. He was wrong for doing it, and you were wrong for thinking about kicking him. I said, wow, mom is going to get us put in jail. And the man stood there and looked at my mother and the look she gave him. I said, “Oh my goodness.” He just moved on. He kept looking and she just stood there and looked. She said, “He's a sorry, low down man.” She said it loud. And she was concerned about my attitude. So I went to, they sent me to a Quaker school. That helped out quite a bit. And I tell people, guy said, “ I didn't know your racial attitude is the way it is.” Hey, I went away to school and college, University of Ohio, in Athens Ohio. 4 out of the 6 years I had white roommates. The last episode at Ohio University, was when I transferred home. My English teacher and my public speaking teacher, they had a problem with racism. And I didn't appreciate it and I told them I had to move out of there. When I came back my Sophomore year, I went up to the room they assigned me to. Put my girlfriend's picture on the desk and put my bags down and when I came out I heard something at the door. I came out, nobody was there, but there was a sign, Scarborough, see the residence manager. Urgent. I went downstairs, and he said, he was beating around the bush. He was stuttering a little bit. “You Scarborough?” “I am, yes sir.” And he said, “We have you down with 2 white roommates.” So, I've had white roommates before. What's the big deal. He said, “We haven't integrated to that point at Ohio University. So I want to find out when did they integrate.” It's very interesting. And he said, “These are two guys that are supposed to be your roommates.” I turned around and saw these two guys. They looked at me and started laughing. I started laughing. He looked. We were dating girls in the same dorm. Going to lunch, doing to dinner, going to the movies. I said, why didn't you tell me their names? They're still no good. They were no good then, but you know cutting up. They came over, “man, give me your bag. Come on. Come on upstairs. We're wasting time.” So I thought about that. That was one experience The other thing is, I'm talking about my father's side of the family. (gets choked up) It's emotional sometimes to think about because of the quality of people they were on both sides. My grandfather, my maternal grandfather passed when I was 2 years old. I never had the opportunity to know. His wife, my grandmother raised 8 children, and she was blind. The respect that they had for their mother was awesome. We would, the grandkids, there were 8 of us. We would sit around, on the floor in the dining room, while Mama, Grandma would share stories that came from Kentucky and her 8 children. Uncle Ed was man of the year for Pasadena California in 1971. And my mother's youngest, baby sister, was Chairman of the Board of Education for Middletown, Ohio, their hometown. Uncle Ed, Uncle Art, I'm sorry, finished Miami University of Ohio, honorable mention All American in Football. Others two sons worked in DC for the government. My mother's oldest sister made it possible for me to go to Ohio University. I told her. She asked me where I wanted to go to college? I told her, Ohio University. My Uncle Talc Strong (? not clear) played in the Negro Baseball League. His name is in the record book for what he did. And my Aunt, wanted me to come over to her bosses house. And she said, when you come, come around back, you're going to come in through the kitchen. Yes ma'am. She said, I told him you wanted to go to Ohio University. Mr. Hooks, President of Arco Steel Mill in Middletown. And when I came in, she knocked on the door and told him I was there. I came in and he said, “have a seat.” Said, “you want to go to Ohio University?” I said, “Yessir because my grandparents are hear and I just want the opportunity to come and visit my grandmother.” He said, “I understand.” He said, “write down your name.” And I did. The next week I had been accepted to Ohio University. She didn't tell me he was Chairman of the Board for Ohio University. Interviewer: I want to go back for a second to get the 2 sides of your family. Do you know the story of how your parents met? Skeepie Scarborough: Good question. My mother came down, my mother finished Wilber Force Ohio and Dr. W. G. Pearson brought a group of students who had graduated from college to be teachers in the Durham system. And she was one of those to come. She met my father and seeing a picture of my mother at her 20s, I can understand why dad would want to marry her. So but then she began to pick up weight and she was a character. Keep you in stitches. She'd say, “you've seen my size. It's all because of you. This is what you did to me.” (laughs) Cutting up, talking junk, always enjoy that because on Friday night, we' had our night out. We'd go to the donut shop on Pettigrew Street. You've heard a lot about that. The restaurant could rival any restaurant in Durham now. The Donut Shop on its own, not franchise. Built by the Logan family on the Regal Theater and the Booker T. Theater, as well as the Donut Shop. And then after we got done eating, we'd go to the movies. See a couple of Western pictures. But it was always something like that. But on Sunday's we knew to go to church and...

00:38:54.000 - 00:42:01.840

Interviewer: Where would you have learned in the social life...where would you have learned to dance? Were you allowed to go out and do those things. Skeepie Scarborough: Yeah. Two doors down from us, are the Garden Clubhouse next door. The W.D. Hill Recreation Center, we learned to dance, we learned to play ping pong, pool. We had back then, two guys could really skate, roller skate. They'd come flying down the street and jump up in the air, stop on a dime and all that (? inaudible). Most of all I have a picture. Durham, I began to see Durham was awesome in the respect that it had people who were doing things positively and were being recognized. That's, that's what we learned. Thank god for North Carolina College for Negroes now, North Carolina Central. They were taught to be teachers, and used to say we were their guinea pigs. We were taught how to run track, how to play tennis, how to play basketball. We had Coach McLendon, who was the man in basketball in the United States, nation...you know. It was something to always look forward to. My mother worked at Central for 35 years. She was purchasing agent and the type of personality to show you what she had, she was talking to the President, Dr. Elder, who presented my diploma. She was talking to him. She also worked at Hillside, but this guy was coming down the street and I was standing there. I was a little boy, looking and he had been drinking. You could tell he was. And she was talking to the President of North Carolina College at that time, and as the young man got closer, she looked, she said, “Dr. Elder, please excuse me.” “Bill Downy!” she called his name. “Y-yes, ma'am.” “What's your problem coming down the street staggering like your doing?” She was talking to him. “You know, Ms. Scarborough, I didn't mean to...” “Don't ever let me see you come down this way again. What are you doing?” “W-W-ell...I might have had too much to drink.” “Well, next time you don't drink, when you're walking down the street, walk like you got some sense!” (Inaudible sentence) “Y-yes Ma'am, y-yes ma'am, I'm sorry.” “Don't do it no more. Cause if I see you I'm going to call your aunt.” And she came back, “Dr. Elder, where were we?” She was that kind of person. Interviewer: Help me with you school time line. Where did you start? What was the first school you ever went to? Skeepie Scarborough: Hillside High School for 7 weeks.

00:42:01.840 - 00:43:22.320

Interviewer: When you were little though? Elementary and all that. Did you start at Scarborough Nursery? Skeepie Scarborough: I'm sorry. Yeah, same thing as Mickey Michaux. He loves Scarborough Nursery School. Scarborough Nursery School. You know what...don't tell me my mind is going to go blank, I want to say... Interviewer: Did you go to Whitted? Skeepie Scarborough: J.A. Whitted School. J.A. Whitted was where they tore the building down for the Town's Building or whatever, at NCC. And went from the 1^(st), 2^(nd), 3^(rd), on up to the 9^(th)...the 9^(th), 8^(th), 7^(th) 8^(th) and 9^(th), I was at, they changed names then. They brought Hillside over, where the Town's Building was, and then J.A. Whitted was still for junior high. And the experiences we had, the teachers we had meant a lot. And I don't mean to bring anything else in, but the only thing I can think of, a cousin of mine, took me over to Hillside, when I was still in junior high school. These guys, as they walked down the hallway, you could hear a pin drop. On both sides. They'd be walking that way, and he had monitors of course. The teachers you did not mess with. They didn't play. They were straight. Having that in mind, a lot of these guys who were coming back to high school from the military, fought in the Korean conflict, Vietnam. One of these young men said he had had hand to hand combat with the Vietnamese. I'm sorry, the North Koreans cause of the army, the way they did it. Back in high school, when they walked down the hallway, you could hear a pin drop. You mean to tell me you can't have discipline? But not throwing this off, there is a friend of ours, and I'd say about 5 of us used to run around together. One guy stayed in trouble all the time. The police said, if you do it again, we're going to put you in jail. Nothing like what's going on today. But he was just a nuisance. And one day we made him angry, and as he walked away, one of the boys hollered, “Hey Bill!” “Yeah, what you want?” “As bad as you were back in the day and as much trouble as you started did you ever think about taking a gun to school?” And he stopped and turned around and said, “Are you all crazy?” Taking a gun to school back then, you wouldn't have to call the police. If you made it through the principal, the teachers, the family and the village that raised us, you were good. And then, I'll conclude with, there was a young man who was 2 years older than I am. And he said he was in the living room and he cursed at his mother. He remembered that. He said, that when he did that, the door slammed behind him, but when he woke up in the hospital with his face bandaged up and his teeth knocked out. He said, that was my father that came through that door. They didn't play that. And on top of that, I kind of riled my father one day. I guess I wasn't, I was just a little angry about something. And he said, “Son, I brought you here and I'll take you out of here, and I'll send you to Beechwood.” Now wherever Beechwood was, I know I didn't want to go. So, I said, “Yes, sir.” (laughs)

00:43:22.320 - 00:43:22.330

Interviewer: So you went from Scarborough Elementary to Whitted... Skeepie Scarborough: to Hillside for 7 weeks. Interviewer: And then? Skeepie Scarborough: To West Howe Quaker School.

00:43:22.330 - 00:43:51.770

Interviewer: And where was that? Skeepie Scarborough: Outside of Philadelphia. West Town Pennsylvania between Westchester and Philadelphia. Interviewer: And you were there for how long? Skeepie Scarborough: From the 9^(th) to the 11^(th).

00:44:52.670 - 00:45:01.460

Interviewer: And then you went to Palmer? Skeepie Scarborough: And then I went to Palmer. The icing on the cake. When I got there, I was listening to what they did. When I got there, I was standing with my hand on the shoulder of Loretta Martin from Columbia and I felt (knocking noise). I looked back. Dr. Wilhemena Cross, who was then President, because Dr. Brown was having dementia. And she said, “young man, you're new here?” “Yes, ma'am.” “We do not touch our ladies here. We admire them from afar.” I said, “yes, ma'am,” and removed, “yes, ma'am.” “Don't let me see this again.” “Yes, ma'am.” “In fact you come by my office after.” There was a football game. “After this is over would you come by my office.” “Yes, Ma'am.” (knocks) Dr. Charlotte Hawkins Brown, “young man, you are new here?” “Yes, ma'am.” “You see that road out there?” “Yes, ma'am.” “Greyhound and Trailways go both ways. Are your bags still packed?” I said, “Yes, ma'am (laughs), but how will I explain to my parents? I just got here the same day, and I'm being sent home on the same day.” But the experiences that we had, it was the icing. Because what we were taught, not just educationally, not only book, but how to treat people, and respect people and work with people. To the extent of my wife, we were dating. This is our second marriages. And we went to a restaurant. The place was packed with white people, and it was a buffet. She went up and got hers. I got mine and she was still working. So I came back to the table and sat down, and she came back and I stood up and pulled a chair out. And when did that as I pushed it back, I said, “Is my hearing...” You could hear a pin drop. I pushed it back. When I turned around, white folks looking, and this lady said, “My father used to do that for my mother.” I said, “Hey baby, we're going to get lynched up in here by what you want me to do...gentleman (inaudible because he is laughing over it) I'll never forget that. We were laughing. But I think about the different things that I've had to experience and the main thing is don't hear too much now. To be cool, calm and collected. There's something to that now. There has been many a time, I felt like speaking my piece or getting angry, but then as my mother would say, for what? You're going to be right back at the same position you were before you got angry. Interviewer: Where did you go to school after you graduated Palmer? Skeepie Scarborough: Ohio University.

00:45:01.460 - 00:46:06.740

Interviewer: And then? Skeepie Scarborough: I transferred to NCC, my sophomore year, second semester. I called and told my mother, I called and said you know, hey, this is racist. It was racism, but then there were those that stuck with it and worked it, and moved on to graduation. And, she said, you ought to come back home to NCC. “Yes, ma'am.” She said, “When you come back you will live on campus.” I said, “Momma, I'm only 3 blocks from the campus.” “You will live on campus, if you come back here.” I stayed in Chitley Hall. Another best experience I ever had, the guys I met. Homecoming, every homecoming, my mother and my grandmother on Fayetteville Street at The Home Place would open up the house, the dining room's bigger than this and they would come in and have whatever; spare ribs, chitlins and all. It looked like the campus was just coming in. The fellowship and haven't seen people for years and cutting up. They always, somebody would holler, “Hey man, I'll see you down at the Scarborough's after the game.” And that's the way that was, but for me to say, I'm here today...I look back over those years but the teachers I had, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, the village, wouldn't take nothing for it. Interviewer: So speaking of that village. Tell me what the Algonquin Tennis Club was all, what did it look like, what was it about? Skeepie Scarborough: Burned down in 1961, '62. It was the bread and butter. Upstairs they had rooms, downstairs, a big living room like where they would have...that was our Marriot, our Hilton, where we would have meetings, dances, parties. It was, and they say they don't have the history of the Algonquin Club House is a slap in the face. They have Hope Valley Club, this is where John Hope Franklin would have stayed when he first came to Durham to work at NCC back in the 40s. Booker T Washington would come through. Dr. Dubois. That is where they stayed, if they didn't stay at a private home. And this is what we had right next door. And it was really something to cherish. The other thing, there were 3 tennis courts behind. During the summer, Althea Gibson used to come here because she had friends in Durham. They would've stayed at least a couple of weeks. Arthur Ashe would come and visit Bif Henderson, who was on the David Letterman Show, stage manager, It was like that playing tennis. Bif was a pretty good tennis player. I have a picture and I'll show you before you leave of 15 high school kids playing in the Southeaster Tennis Tournament behind the Algonquin Club House. What happened. People came, colored folks, I use the term colored because that was the time it was at that time. Had outstanding men and women coming in from around the country. Finell (?) from California. The first time I ever seen a man do a drop shot. I mean chop the ball back and hit, and roll back into the net. I'm trying to recall the sisters...The Hawkin sisters...you know Serena and Venus. The Hawkin sisters from Houston Texas also were bad. (laughs) The girl had the ball hit on her backhand, one of the Hawkins sisters, she ran across court, jumped up in the air. POW! Left the girl standing over there. And one of my running partners, a tennis player, he walked down to the judges table. He said, “Sir, do we have to play the women?” and everybody cracked up there. “No son, you do not.” And he looked up and said, “Thank you dear heavenly father. Thank you” (laughs) That's how good they were. Now, that picture I'm going to show you, they're 15 high school kids on that picture. I'm on there, thank you. Receiving trophies. 10 out of the 15 went to Hillside. The other came from Virginia. Can't recall my boy's name now. He went to Hampton eventually...but Smiley from Detroit. Wes from Chicago. Different people who had trophies. 10 out of the 15 outstanding tennis players from Hillside High School. That's what hit it, and on top of that, Bonnie Logan. You've heard about Bonnie Logan inducted into the North Carolina Hall of Fame because of outstanding feats in tennis. We could be walking down the street. When we would go to school, this duffel bag had sneaker and tennis, ahh basketball in there. And the other duffel bag, a tennis racket, balls and tennis shoes. Under my arms were my books. Anything you want to play, we got out on the court and do it. Tennis, basketball, track, swimming, anything. We were so busy trying to impress the young ladies and that's what it was all about. We would be running down Fayetteville Street, hitting the tennis ball across the street. Hit the concrete. I mean the asphalt, hit back and cars would be blowing. Never, nobody had broken windows or nothing like that. But it was fun. It became funny because people used to like to watch us. See how much control we had to hit back and forth, running down the street. But we exercised.

00:46:06.750 - 00:46:39.340

Interviewer: Who would you play? Who would you like to play tennis with? Skeepie Scarborough: Whoo...they got on me, because my thing was when I came back to Durham, that's where I messed up. I had to work everyday. My grandfather was saying, you're back home now, you will work. I played tennis. I tore cartilage in my leg. I never had it operated on. But I had a written letter from LaSalle College in Philadelphia in the 10^(th) grade, please talk to us about getting a scholarship. At that time, 2 years before, my right..no, it's older than that...anyway, Tom Golla (?) was All American along with him, I can never call my boy's name, he's going to shoot me. All American, Celtic, Bill Russell. We were at the gym when Russel's group, I think he went to college in California came into the gym to practice. And Tom Golla (?), they were pointing him out. And Bill Russell walked over to him and said, “So you're the famous Tom Golla. Pleased to meet you.” (laughs) and messed over him that day. But just and Philadelphia had some outstanding basketball players anyway. One of them Earl “The Pearl” Monroe and we had to play against Chamberlain and we were like everyone else in the bleachers. Every time he'd come down to center, we'd watch him float into the basket, without trying to defend him. But as I said, I think about, what I enjoyed being here at the age that I was checking myself to look back and say it's been this many years. But the, I don't know the terminology, but everybody had some form of helping me through life to understand, particularly not only going to school, but going to church and understanding what it's all about. Interviewer: There's a theater called Booker T. Skeepie Scarborough: Correct

00:46:39.350 - 00:46:39.350

Interviewer: There's a street called Jackie Robinson. Skeepie Scarborough: Uh huh Interviewer: There were names, there were things that were...Dunbar Street, Paul Lawrence Dunbar. Skeepie Scarborough: I didn't realize it, but you're right.

00:46:39.350 - 00:47:06.840

Interviewer: So there were things in this community named for prominent African American figures. What do you think that's about? That kind of self identification. Skeepie Scarborough: Out of respect and knowing what we had. (Clears throat) Excuse me. It was a respect. What, what people had and what they brought to the table. And here in Durham, as an elderly gentleman one day told me, when I got through reciting what I knew a little bit of, he said, everybody, all black people in Durham are outstanding because of where we came from and what helped us to get here. We had good teachers. We had people who cared and would stop and talk to you and tell you when you were wrong. And keep that in mind. The things that are going on today, we were trained down here. It's very evident. They don't do that now. That's why the trouble, there's so much so that it is. Interviewer: You're talking about being trained as a very little person. Tell me what Scarborough Nursery was like? Skeepie Scarborough: (laughs) When I think of Scarborough Elementary School, I think of the worst whipping I ever got. I, I wanted to be a barber. I remember that. But I don't remember where I got the scissors from. But I cut a young lady's pigtails and my grandmother was in charge. She didn't like that at all, because of course the mother was upset. And I can remember seeing her now. Come to her office. She took me across her lap and I couldn't sit down for two days. I remember that. But I realize one thing after all of that experience. I didn't want to be a barber. I think about, I think about Mickey. There were quite a few people who came through Scarborough Elementary. Quite a few, but the teacher's were there. Always the teachers. I gave you the early history of Proctor Cozort (?) on the corner. The building in 1902; Lincoln Hospital, when they decided to build another hospital about 1922 where the facility is now. They tore it down and built what they have now. My grandfather bought Lincoln Hospital building. He did that because he said when he'd go to home's of people who have had loss, loss a loved one, he found that there were children there who were unattended and he hired 3 ladies to pay them out of his pocket to make sure these kids were brought...fed properly and trained. That's how...Scarborough Nursery School is the oldest licensed nursery school in North Carolina. And due to, as I say, my grandmother, her daughter, sometimes my mother, but it was just the idea of the respect that was there and even kids out here now, in earlier years they'd see my grandmother, they'd be waving, and she's be asking, “Now, how are you doing?” and she'd talk to them. But that was what...that's the climate that I came under.

00:47:06.840 - 00:48:35.040

Interviewer: How old did one have to be to start going to Scarborough Nursery School? Skeepie Scarborough: That's a good question. I don't even remember how old I was. I guess 3 years old, 4 years old. I'm trying to remember the real small infants like we have at Scarborough Nursery now in the little ones...but the, oh, one experience, Mrs. Woods. I was a national officer. I was a vice president for the National Funeral Directors and I spoke in Washington. And that night, this lady said, “Please excuse me. Before he speaks, I trained that boy in Kindergarden. My name is Mrs. Woods.” I said, “Oh lord!” She said, “Oh, yes, I remember you. I had to use a little paddle on you for messing up.” (laughs) Everybody started laughing. But I think of different thing like that. Interviewer: And it still continues? Skeepie Scarborough: Oh yeah. If people, so many times I see people get upset and jump to do things, but we were taught the first thing, assess what's going on bravely or briefly (?) and don't act crazy. My mother now, my mother was and my father. My father would talk to me and I haven't mentioned to much about my father, but my father was a helper. I'll never forget the Downtowner Hotel. It was torn down to build the transit system right there by the overpass, all those buses coming into. But to make a long story short, this will be...I'm getting short winded thinking about why I say that. He, those young men who worked at the Downtowner and the kitchen caught on fire, and it was about 2 weeks before Christmas. And he was always helping, serving people food and all that. So my father, bought groceries, bought Christmas gifts for this young man to give to his family. And when the guy got this he just broke down. And I often think about that (gets emotional) because I heard, I remember hearing the man say, “You didn't have to do this for me.” He said, “No, I didn't have to do this for you, but you see, you are my friend.” (Still emotional) And then after that we came back by the funeral home and my father was just sitting there with his hand on the back of the seat and he was in deep thought. And he hit me on the knee, he said, “Merry Christmas son.” I got the message. Its...excuse me for one moment (gets very emotional) When I start thinking about those things, it's deep. (Blows nose) It's very deep. And the only thing I can say to Durham is that I'm happy to have had the parents, grandparents on both sides, that I had. They all were awesome, under the circumstances.

00:48:35.040 - 00:48:35.050

Interviewer: I have had the blessing of being with you when a loved one of mine passed away, and watched you officiate and keep, you know, keep everyone comfortable. The last living member of the generation, Grace (?) Thompson generation. The last member of that generation was Thelma Bailey Lanier. Skeepie Scarborough: Thelma Bell Interviewer: Thelma Bell Lanier. They were sister in law. Skeepie Scarborough: (Asks a question which is inaudible)

00:49:13.600 - 00:49:53.320

Interviewer: Dunbar. She's A.C. Lanier's widow. Skeepie Scarborough: Ok, Thelma Lanier. Interviewer: And I remember you funeralized her. And I bring that up because the life of an undertaker and you're third generation? Skeepie Scarborough: Fourth

00:49:53.320 - 00:49:53.330

Interviewer: Fourth? Fourth generation? Skeepie Scarborough: Yep. Chuckles. Fourth. Great-grandfather, grandfather, father and me, my son, he's J.C the fourth. He said, “dad, my two sons are Logan and Sam, we have enough 4^(th) and 5^(th) and 6^(th) (laughs).” I'll never forget that. Interviewer: So what is that...describe that work...you, you hold so many community memories. You have been able to witness so much. Skeepie Scarborough: I just, I love my hometown. (blows nose) I think it's because everywhere I go, I went to Los Angeles, California in '62. My father gave my mother and a trip and to go out to see her brother. I wish you could have met my mother. My mother was a trip. (laughs) Got up one morning and he lived on (sound seems to drop out here) Drive. This is the house. You walk across the street, you could look into the Rose Bowl. That's, that's how, where he lived. But we were staying there, and there was some coffee on the table. Then all of a sudden it started trembling, you know like Earthquakes in the area. My mother saw that, she said, “Hey Bro.” “Yeah.” “What's going on?” “Oh we have those little tremors.” “Like something that leads to an earthquake?” “Well, maybe sometime...” “Mmmhmm, ok. Where's your phone? Get me Greyhound please. I need a reservation from Los Angeles back to Durham, North Carolina as soon as possible.” (Laughs) I mean just...Oh, while I was out there, my cousin introduced me to a young lady. She was a good tennis player and she'd take me around, go to dances, for the two weeks I was there, and my father told me, “Son, this is your decision. If you want to stay out there 5, 6, 7 months...” Because when it came to the business, I was number 8 on the totem pole. I mean, grandfather, aunt, uncle, father, all that on down the line. So he said, “if you want to stay there a year, you can stay there.” And the young lady was telling me to please stay. And about two weeks later, I decided I wanted to come home. And when I got home, everybody, we had a little party and they said, “Skeepie, what, what are you thinking about?” I said, “Right now, I am thinking about taking a boot and putting it behind me and every step I take is kicking me.” (laughs) Because (?) the area. Do you remember hearing about Hogan's Heroes on TV? Two white soldiers and a third was a black soldier. He went to, he finished NCC. He was from North Carolina back in the day. I knew him even when he was in college. And I met him when I was out there again, but I thought about the opportunities I had and then in later years going to National Funeral Conventions, particular out there. I ran into a lot of people that I heard about, just expressing the ideas, just the opportunities I had. The opportunity to do what I did.

00:49:53.330 - 00:50:16.660

Interviewer: Did you have a choice as to whether to go into this profession? Skeepie Scarborough: Yes. I'm glad you asked that. I wanted to go to Med School. And my grandfather told me if you would think about it. He said, what you can do is go to Mortuary School, get your license. At least you would have your license. And then you do what you want to do. Well, I did that. I didn't further my education. But Walter Managle (?), the cousin to Herlie (?), and I were at Palmer together, and when we go to Mortuary School, he went to Howard. I finished NCC, I didn't know who (?) that way. But we were, oh, you are going to get me to tell you some of my stories. We, went to mortuary school together and graduated together, and the Dean had all 16 black students, we were trips. We should have been on TV. Those guys were sick, I mean, just cut up. White man, he said, “I just want to come to each funeral home and see how you all are faring in business, because the way you all are acting here, my goodness.” (Laughs) But it was (?) But I'll share this with you, I don't know, but anyway, I'll do it. My cousin, my girl cousin, whose father was my cousin as well, made it possible for me to stay at their home and she was a good friend of Thomasina Montgomery, a young lady down the street. All seniors in high school, very attractive. And to make a long story short briefly, I, she asked me, Thomasina, if I would take her to Junior/Senior Prom. And Walt Managle (?) was going to take my cousin. With my big cousin, her father, being the chaperone. So we did that. So, I told her when I was leaving Philadelphia, she wanted me to stay. Of course that was the only date I ever had with her, but I was always talking to her, telling her, stop cursing so much and all. Thomasina Montgomery, you would know her as Tammy Terrell. Secondly, one day I jumped on the subway and knocked this black lady down. Helped her up, “Please forgive me. I ain't from Philly, I'm from Durham, North Carolina.” She said, “I'm from Fayetteville.” So we started talking. She said, “I want you to come over Sunday,” this was like on a Wednesday or Thursday. Cause I lived 5 blocks from there. “And meet my husband and my children.” I said, “Yes, ma'am.” I did that. And I wound up taking her husband around to different experiences. He wanted to sing. He thought he could sing. Took him to clubs, bring him home 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning on Saturdays. Hard for me to get up and go to church. So I came to Durham, and I did not tell them that I was leaving. One day on a Friday, a guy calls me from the Durham Armory. He said, “Hey Skee, we got a man up here who keeps asking about you. You know we have James Brown and Al Green tonight and this man wants you to come up. He wants to talk to you. He said, he wants you to come up here and hear him.” Hear who? What's his name? “Solomon Burke.” I said, “Solomon is in Durham?” He said, “Yeah.” I said, “Tell Sol I'll come up there, but I ain't paying $10 to hear him sing though.” Stuff like that. And lastly, my girl cousin, who walked up to the Fair. Her husband passed and she was going with a young man by the name of Billy. And she, and knowing her like I do, she just wanted me to ask who was Billy? She said, “And Billy and I did this.” I said, “Vi, hold up, is there something you want to say to me? What is it?” She said, “Do you remember taking this young lady home from Germantown High School and I asked you to do that because she was in a hurry.” I said, “Oh yeah, very attractive. I remember her.” She said, “What happened?” I said, “When I got her to her home, she jumped out the car, cursing at her sister.” I said, I couldn't deal with that. And she said, “do you know who she was in adult life?” “Know who?” “Lola Filana.” So I mean, I saw different people and did not know who I was looking at in Philly. So busy going to school. But this is my life. I worked and I've enjoyed but most of all, if not for the training that I got down here, I know I wouldn't be in this predicament. Interviewer: You can live anywhere in the world and you chose always to come back to Durham and make Durham home. What does that...and I know you have an historic home, an historic Scarborough Home. There... Skeepie Scarborough: That house came off of Main Street. There were 5 homes that were saved. These victorian homes were torn down to build Durham, what was Durham, back those years, 1910 and all that, but remember the brick that helped build that was the Fitzgerald brick yard, a black brother team that were up on the West End. Paulie Murray relatives. Uncles.

00:50:16.660 - 00:51:05.960

Interviewer: Had you ever heard of her before. I know there's been a recent resurgence of her. Skeepie Scarborough: Not really. The only thing I heard was she was born in Chapel Hill, but raised in Durham. So both had to have given credit from both sides and all. Interviewer: So the house was moved from Main Street? Skeepie Scarborough: Down on rollers by horse, horse and pulley's. And that was 1914. And the house, 3 Scarborough families lived there at one time. That's how large it is. But for me to sit up and straight faced tell what I think about those memories because they were memories of strength, to help me through these times. And there's been many a time that I know I would have done something wrong, but then I think about not only my parents and my grandparents, my grandmother, I can hear her now. If I said I wanted to do something bodily dangerous or getting back at somebody I can hear her now, “Get outta here with those thoughts. Get out of this house. We don't have that here.” I don't want to go through grandma, because I know where's she from. So I just try to deal with what I have deal with in the right way.

00:51:07.960 - 00:51:36.700

Interviewer: And what was your grandmother's name who would say that? Skeepie Scarborough: Ms. Clydie Fullwood Scarborough. But then on the other hand, my mother's mother, Grandma Strong, I'll tell you this. Her brother in law, my uncle, Buck, helped arrest the sheriff of the county in Kentucky and she, Grandma Strong said, “Uncle Buck was bad, I mean he didn't play.” She said, “But I'll never understand why your father, ya'lls father had to move us to Ohio out of Kentucky.” And my Uncle Ed, who was a man of the year in Pasadena, California said, “Oh mom, yes you do know why.” She said, “No, Ed why did we have to move?” “Cause she said it, because Uncle Buck was a bad mother...you know like that. And that's what Uncle Ed said. “Whoa, whoa, are you saying Uncle Buck was a bad mother...and (clears throat) his sisters...excuse me, I'm sorry. (laughs) But they kept something going all the time. On Sunday, when word got out that the Strong's were here for the summer, you could come on to Grove Street, cars were parked on both sides of the street. The Mayor, police chief, whomever, coming up here. White people hugging, you know carrying on and sitting on the steps talking, talking junk, cutting up. That's what they did back in the day. I mean that's what I... Interviewer: Is there anything else you would want to share about your time growing up in Durham, living in Durham. Skeepie Scarborough: I wouldn't take nothing for the opportunity. I learned a lot, and what I learned was from, not only my parents, my school teachers, my principal. But from the village as well. Everybody is somebody. You treat that with respect because you are there by the grace of god.

00:51:36.700 - 00:51:36.710

Interviewer: Thank you so much for this interview. Skeepie Scarborough: I hope I hit it on the head. Interviewer: You shared everything just as I think you wanted to and that's all that matters. It was a beautiful story and beautiful remembrances. I also want to thank you on behalf of the Durham County Library. Skeepie Scarborough: You're very welcome.

00:51:36.710 - 00:51:36.720

Interviewer: Thank you. Skeepie Scarborough: I hope if there is anything I can do let me know. I try to call on my resources from the past. (laughs) Interviewer: Thank you. Skeepie Scarborough: Ok.

00:51:36.720 - 00:51:36.720

End of Interview.